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Modification Data Plate - answers found
The AFV ASSOCIATION was formed in 1964 to support the thoughts and research of all those interested in Armored Fighting Vehicles and related topics, such as AFV drawings. The emphasis has always been on sharing information and communicating with other members of similar interests; e.g. German armor, Japanese AFVs, or whatever.
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Dontos
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 26, 2011 5:24 pm
Post subject: Modification Data Plate - answers found

I was checking out a newly aquired digital TM on the M41 (TM 9-2350-201-12) and I found information regarding the perplexing questions of the M41 & M42 MWO data plates found on the rear of the vehicles.



In the manual on page 16, there is a reference to the "Modification Numbering Plate":

"This plate, welded on the hull rear plate, 10 inches below the right lifting eye, carries numbers of completed modifications, Ordnance serial number of the vehicle, and manufacturer's serial number."


Regards
Don
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Roy_A_Lingle
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 26, 2011 5:38 pm
Post subject: Re: Modification Data Plate - answers found

Hi Dontos! Hi Folks!

- Dontos

I was checking out a newly aquired digital TM on the M41 (TM 9-2350-201-12) and I found information regarding the perplexing questions of the M41 & M42 MWO data plates found on the rear of the vehicles.

.....carries numbers of completed modifications, Ordnance serial number of the vehicle, and manufacturer's serial number."
Regards
Don


Does that mean the top left number is the serial number and the top right number is the manufacturer's number?

Super find! Great spot report!
Sgt, Scouts Out!

_________________
"You can never have too much reconnaissance."
General G.S. Patton Jr.
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vagabond
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 28, 2011 5:12 am
Post subject: Re: Modification Data Plate - answers found

So where on the plate do we find the serial numbers?
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Dontos
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 28, 2011 12:24 pm
Post subject: Re: Modification Data Plate - answers found

The way I understand this is the upper left corner is the "Ordnance serial number" and the upper right corner is the "Manufacturer's serial number".

On the M42 'Duster', that has now been shipped to Ft Benning, I had matched the SN on the upper right with the SN stamped on the vehicle data plate in the drivers compartment. That would be the manufacturer's SN.

BTW: The MWO plate that I used as an example, above, is from the M41 in Stithton Traffic Circle.

Hope that clear up some 'issues'.....

Regards
Don
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Roy_A_Lingle
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 28, 2011 6:18 pm
Post subject: Re: Modification Data Plate - answers found

Hi Dontos! Hi Folks!

You know, for an ex-tanker, you make a great scout!

Sgt, Scouts out!

_________________
"You can never have too much reconnaissance."
General G.S. Patton Jr.
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Kurt_Laughlin
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 01, 2011 1:46 am
Post subject: Re: Modification Data Plate - answers found

- Dontos
The way I understand this is the upper left corner is the "Ordnance serial number" and the upper right corner is the "Manufacturer's serial number".

On the M42 'Duster', that has now been shipped to Ft Benning, I had matched the SN on the upper right with the SN stamped on the vehicle data plate in the drivers compartment. That would be the manufacturer's SN.

Regards
Don


Wait a minute . . . Wouldn't the data plate inside have the Ordnance-assigned serial?

We talked about the modification markings before. The trouble was that the stampings made no sense. For example, which modification was "67"

KL
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Dontos
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 01, 2011 12:59 pm
Post subject: Re: Modification Data Plate - answers found

Kurt

The MWO applications would be referenced thru some documentation that number & define what '67' was.

As for the definitions of Ordnance assigned / Manufacturer assigned SNs,....I'm clueless. I'm just trying to make sense of the TM definitions.

Perhaps the upper right is the Ordnance Assigned SN & the upper left is the Manufacturer Assigned.....?? ( I was guessing based on how it was written...)

I guess this is one of those reoccurring discussions where we end up throwing our hands up and declaring.....

"F*** IF I KNOW!!!" (Ha Ha Ha)

Guess I'm not that good of a Scout after all....
Regards
Don
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Kurt_Laughlin
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 02, 2011 4:46 am
Post subject: Re: Modification Data Plate - answers found

Well, I'm certain the dataplate number is the Ord number. (I'll bet the TM says as much.) Those were typically assigned sequentially upon acceptance by the Ord inspector at the plant as the tanks were completed. The Mfg or build number would be assigned at the start of the process, so that the plant could keep track of which tank was which when filling out QA sign-offs, build instructions, repair orders, and other paperwork. You can see how things would get out of sync. Let's say five tanks start down the line, in order: 100, 101, 102, 103, and 104. At some point they have a problem with #101 and it takes awhile to fix or get an evaluation of the condition. At any rate, they pull it out of the line so the ones behind can keep moving. When fixed, it gets inserted back into the line where it came out. The tanks then keep moving in a different order: 100, 102, 103, 101, and 104. Now, when they get finish and have Ord numbers assigned, they will be:

100 - 100
102 - 101
103 - 102
101 - 103
104 - 104

For the example you posted (1091 - 1086), I'd say this vehicle was one that kept moving while earlier ones were pulled, like #103 in my example. Notice that the Mfg is not always larger than the Ord. For the tank that is thrown back into the line, it is less.

KL
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Dontos
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 02, 2011 5:17 am
Post subject: Re: Modification Data Plate - answers found

I keep trying to think about the process of applying MWO's on the Abrams over the years.

At a crew / operator level we never knew any sort of numbering. A specific case I clearly remember was the #7 skirt MWO. Before they started factory making the cut out #7's, we'd get the slightly tapered skirt thru the supply system. We'd have to actually cut them ourselves and after remounting the newly modified skirt we'd fill out a 2404 with "left side ( or right side) #7 skirt MWO applied" as an entry line.

I guess the BMO tracked the actual MWO #'s. I sure FSB's would track such numbers also.

Guess we'd need Ordnance records for whtever type vehicle (M41 or M42) to be able to define MWO stamped #'s.

Just a thought. Did I mention all this number stuff has given me a headache.....

Regards
Don
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Dontos
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 02, 2011 1:19 pm
Post subject: Re: Modification Data Plate - answers found

I'm found my photo of the M42 MWO plate.



Which can be compared the data plate in the drivers compartment....



Perhaps something to do would be to compare similiar vehicle type MWO plates to see how they compare (ie MWO stampings)

Just a thought....
Regards
Don
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