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toadmanstankpictures · ***Power User*** Offline Joined: Jan 24, 2006 Posts: 704

An acquaintance of mine visited the Karl Smith Collection last weekend. While there, he saw the hull of a M4A3E2 that was under going restoration. It was a former range target, possibly from Minnesota.

On a side note, the pics he showed me include a M4 Composite and M4A1 Sherman. The M4 Composite is in addition to the one on display at Ft. Douglas. There were also two unrestored Sherman hulls, a M4A3 Wet Stowage hull and what appeared to be a M4A3 Dry Stowage one. There were also three turrets: a low bustle turret, high bustle one, and a 76mm T-23 type.

Once I get a copy of the pictures, I'll see if he'll let me post some.

Neil_Baumgardner

Probably SN 50455, RN 308305 off the Camp Ripley target range?

milveh.tripod.com/Pict.../index.htm

Neil

binder001 · ***Power User*** Offline Joined: Jan 25, 2006 Posts: 363

Another M4A3E2? Sounds GREAT to me Smile

I'm terrible with names, is Karl Smith the guy in Tooele, UT? When you mentioned the "composite" and the M4A1 I thought of that collection. Plus more M4 versions possibly down the line? Sounds good. It seems that this fellow does nice work on the restorations. I hope he is able to do the others projects.

I realize that it isn't historically correct but it would be interesting to see one ofthese "mix 'n match" junkyard Shermans brought back as an M4A3 76mm. I can't think of any of these that got preserved except for Clerveaux.

Thanks for the info Chris. Please keep us posted.

the_shadock

- binder001

I realize that it isn't historically correct but it would be interesting to see one ofthese "mix 'n match" junkyard Shermans brought back as an M4A3 76mm. I can't think of any of these that got preserved except for Clerveaux

what about this one?

Pierre-Olivier

binder001 · ***Power User*** Offline Joined: Jan 25, 2006 Posts: 363

I certainly didn't know about that one. I'm guessing from the markings that it is in France? That poor guy obviously survived a fire.

the_shadock

yes, it survived a fire. Indeed, this is an original tank from the French 12th RCA, 2nd French Armored Division, knocked out during the Battle of Dompaire. Despite the damages, the crew escaped without injuries.
It is currently located at Ville-sur-Illon, near Dompaire, few meters from the location where it was hit.

Full walkaround here :
http://the.shadock.free.fr/Tanks_in_France/sherman_villesurillon/index.html

Pierre-Olivier

panamadan · ***Power User*** Offline Joined: Jan 29, 2006 Posts: 174

Neil,
The one Chris is talking about of is one that some speak of being a hard target at a arty range.
I don't know of anyone who has seen it however. Ripley's Jumbo is still there at the museum as far as I now. My daughter works at Ripley and I'll ask her if it is gone from the museum.
Dan

Neil_Baumgardner

Dan,
Camp Ripley has (or perhaps had) _two_ Jumbos. SN 50344, aka “Jumbo 152 was pulled off the Camp Ripley target range for the museum.

But if you read this link, milveh.tripod.com/Pict...index.htm, there is a second Jumbo - SN 50455 - that was left on the range.

Neil

panamadan · ***Power User*** Offline Joined: Jan 29, 2006 Posts: 174

Neil,
I know all about Ripley's Jumbo-I have photos of it when it was pulled out-it wasn't actaully on a range, but in a waiting area to be used as a hard target (along with a M4A3 that was at the Hibbing Armory the last I saw it)when it was found by a wise MSG. I have his letters he sent to his highers that descrbe the impotrance of this vehicle.
Personaly, I think that the second Jumbo at Ripley is a myth and will do so until I see a photo of it downrange.
Also- your link doesn't work.
Dan

Neil_Baumgardner

Sorry, the comma got in the link somehow. Try this one:
milveh.tripod.com/Pict.../index.htm

panamadan · ***Power User*** Offline Joined: Jan 29, 2006 Posts: 174

Neil,
Just checked out your link and most if not all of the pics where taken by me sometime in the past! Most of the article is not correct-as I said it actually wasn't being used as a range target, but in a holding area awaiting it's turn to be a range target.
The reason it has many MG splash marks on it as it was used in the past as a moving MG target-when found it had a larget plate welded on to the drivers side to protect his peroscopes and hatch. The pipes welded on the top of the turret is to protect the antenna mount.
There is a photo of some MG soldiers marching past a handful of M4A4's and in the background aNe two Jumbo's-one #152 and the second looks to be #44? Both are set up to be used as moving MG targets.
Dan

the_shadock

- binder001

I certainly didn't know about that one. I'm guessing from the markings that it is in France? That poor guy obviously survived a fire.

and there is a 3rd one at Beffe, in Belgium :

Pierre-Olivier

Dontos

Dan

The Minn ARNG (Summer AT in 1955) photo does have 2 M4A3E2's visible in the shot. They don't appear to be modified though.

A year ago or so, I was told that there was as many as 3 M4A3E2 hulls in Utah but I believe there was only one M4A3E2 turret. It was mentioned that they had been bought as scrap, having been part of a package deal coming from an impact range,....from whereabouts unknown.

I had asked for Hull SN confirmations but never got any response. I seem to remember that the Turret is 'OSF' Turret #12.

Regards
Don

panamadan · ***Power User*** Offline Joined: Jan 29, 2006 Posts: 174

Don,
I disagree with you on the photo unless we are talking about two different photos-the photo that I have clearly shows the plates over the TC's vision blocks and the large plate welded onto the hull L/S (drivers side).
Back to work for me!
Dan

Dontos

Here is the photo I was referring to:

The others that I've seen are the 'range' shots that you can see the modifications for live target engagement with small arms.

It was my understanding that only one was actually recovered, beside an M4. I thought that the second was supposedly at a different location, I could be mistaken.

Regards
Don

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