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the_shadock · Posted: Tue Jan 28, 2014 7:44 am Post subject: Need help on a Hetzer / G-13

Hello,

I would like to check facts. I received an email containing this picture, and the parti circled in red seem to prove that Kevin Wheatcroft's Hetzer is a G-13. Is this enough to identify for sure the model of the tank? Thanks !!

Massimo_Foti · Posted: Tue Jan 28, 2014 7:57 am Post subject: Re: Need help on a Hetzer / G-13

Do we have any pictures showing the gun, near the mantlet?

Masimo

Walter · Posted: Tue Jan 28, 2014 1:40 pm Post subject: Re: Need help on a Hetzer / G-13

I have a picture from upfront,but I am not allowed to put it on the internet.Will send you this in your mail Massimo

Walter

earlymb · ***Power User*** Offline Joined: Jan 30, 2011 Posts: 101

Very interesting. Even if it has or had a Saurer engine, it could still be a WW2 Hetzer modified to G13 spec, if I understand correctly?

Massimo_Foti · Posted: Tue Jan 28, 2014 2:13 pm Post subject: Re: Need help on a Hetzer / G-13

- earlymb

Very interesting. Even if it has or had a Saurer engine, it could still be a WW2 Hetzer modified to G13 spec, if I understand correctly?

It depends on the definition of G-13 Smile

We discussed the topic quite a few times in the past.

Anyway, the Saurer engine was added in Switzerland, some time after the tanks left their Czechoslovakian factory

Massimo

Massimo_Foti · Posted: Tue Jan 28, 2014 2:25 pm Post subject: Re: Need help on a Hetzer / G-13

Thanks for the picture Walter! It seems it has a StuK 40 gun, but the angle isn't the best, so I can't be 100% sure.

From behind it doesn't have the "bump", at the top left of the rear sloped plate that is typical of G-13s with Saurer engines. You can see what I am talking about here:

G-13 Panzerjäger by Massimo Foti, on Flickr

I have a pretty strong feeling it's a G-13 with a gasoline engine, but I need additional pictures with the gun to be sure.

Massimo

vmmv1 · Posted: Tue Jan 28, 2014 3:15 pm Post subject: Re: Need help on a Hetzer / G-13

gun is irrelevant to the vehicle. changing the gun after the war does not change the vehicle. Nor does changing the engine.

Massimo_Foti · Posted: Tue Jan 28, 2014 3:33 pm Post subject: Re: Need help on a Hetzer / G-13

It's not like guns were changed after the war. The vehicles were assembled after the war with spare parts mostly produced during the war (with Waffenamt markings all over the place). But gun and crew layout were different.

A very similar case happened for Fiat G-59 airplanes, assembled after the war from unfinished G-55 parts, using a different engine (RR Merlin vs DB-605) and guns.

Massimo

Landsverk · ***Power User*** Offline Joined: Apr 10, 2010 Posts: 48

If you have a "fake" vehicle you can make it look original by changing parts, but it will still be a "fake".
Happens all the time with both vehicles and Equipment. If you are honest with people telling them what you have done there is nothing wrong with this, but if you then claim that it is original it is wrong.

Thats why these questions are relevant. In Norway there was a Pz 38T for sale some time ago - a restoration project. It turned out to be a fake - a Swedish Self propelled gun SAV m/43 built by Scania in 1945 and then converted to look like a Pz 38T and together with original 38T turret it could be put up for sale as an "original" Pz 38T. If the seller is honest with you and tell you all the facts - no problem, but you will probably get more Money if you claim that it is original.

vmmv1 · Posted: Tue Jan 28, 2014 5:24 pm Post subject: Re: Need help on a Hetzer / G-13

Guns were changed after the war, barrels wear out and need to me changed. No one was going to make the new barrels so they used what was available. There is no difference in crew layout other than two crew switched seats.

Massimo_Foti · Posted: Tue Jan 28, 2014 6:04 pm Post subject: Re: Need help on a Hetzer / G-13

We had this same discussion in the past. I mentioned sources, books and respected authors. I see no point arguing, we will keep our own opinions anyway.

Massimo

the_shadock · Posted: Tue Jan 28, 2014 6:34 pm Post subject: Re: Need help on a Hetzer / G-13

for me the question is : was it assembled post-1945 with existing parts produced during WW2, or was it completed during WW2 and modified after the war?

P-O

Massimo_Foti · Posted: Tue Jan 28, 2014 6:42 pm Post subject: Re: Need help on a Hetzer / G-13

People like Charles K. Kliment and Vladimir Francev, plus a bunch of less-know authors already answered that question. G-13s were assembled after the war, with spare parts left behind plus some newly manufactured parts. The percentage of new parts was and will remain unclear, but pretty much everybody think it was small.

As for the story behind guns and engines, we talked about it in the past.

Massimo

the_shadock · Posted: Tue Jan 28, 2014 6:49 pm Post subject: Re: Need help on a Hetzer / G-13

we should do a poll about this, lol

Massimo_Foti · Posted: Tue Jan 28, 2014 6:57 pm Post subject: Re: Need help on a Hetzer / G-13

It's a topic that may have emotional or financial implications for somebody, that's why he can easily trigger extreme reactions Smile

Massimo

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