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M551 Vietnam Question
The AFV ASSOCIATION was formed in 1964 to support the thoughts and research of all those interested in Armored Fighting Vehicles and related topics, such as AFV drawings. The emphasis has always been on sharing information and communicating with other members of similar interests; e.g. German armor, Japanese AFVs, or whatever.
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cfbush2000
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 14, 2006 8:29 pm
Post subject: M551 Vietnam Question

Hello,
I'm doing a Vietnam era Sheridan and would like to add the stowage rack that some had mounted on the rear hull. I have a few pictures showing the racks from the side of the vehicle. What I have not been able to find is a picture from the back of the tank, showing the rack in full.
Any help (pictures, drawings, descriptions) would be welcome.
Thanks

Chuck Bush
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Doug_Kibbey
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 14, 2006 8:34 pm
Post subject: Re: M551 Vietnam Question

Chuck,
See if something here can help:

www.vhpamuseum.org/11t...hcav.shtml

Also check Howard Thompson's incredible 1/8th scale model of "Arizona"

www.sampson-jeff.com/t.../index.htm
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SFC_Jeff_Button
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 14, 2006 10:03 pm
Post subject: Re: M551 Vietnam Question

[img][/img][img][/img][img][/img]
Here are shots of the Sheridan at Fort Irwin, painted up in 11th ACR markings. I only have two shots that show the rear area of the turret. this vehicle is missing all its swim gear and the "tea cup" armor that was atop the turret MG. I hope this helps.

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Doug_Kibbey
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 14, 2006 10:17 pm
Post subject: Re: M551 Vietnam Question

Jeff,
Sheridans in Vietnam service generally had an "add-on" rack or two (along with any number of other modifications) that expanded their carrying capacity. The one at Ft. Irwin lacks all of the typical VN mods.
I have closeups of the rear of the magnificent example at the MVTF ("Littlefield Collection"), but it is done up as a late example of a 3/73rd Armor, 82nd Abn. vehicle and not Vietnam.

Doug
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Doug_Kibbey
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 14, 2006 10:45 pm
Post subject: Re: M551 Vietnam Question

This is a "plain vanilla" M551 from my M551 AR/AAV Training Course at Ft. Knox in '71:


...and this, the 3/73rd Armor, 82nd Abn example at the MVTF (Littlefield's):
(Both are like the Ft. Irwin example...neither is typical of Sheridans in Vietnam service)



Refer to my first post in this thread for images of the VN style rack (and in Mr. Thompson's incredibly detailed model)
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Doug_Kibbey
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 15, 2006 1:55 am
Post subject: Re: M551 Vietnam Question

Hull racks (unofficial)...best views I have:


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cfbush2000
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 15, 2006 3:08 am
Post subject: Re: M551 Vietnam Question

Thanks for the help Folks. Now I just need to get in gear and scratch the rack.

Chuck
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Doug_Kibbey
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 15, 2006 3:11 am
Post subject: Re: M551 Vietnam Question

Don't try to make it look too "finished"....it's just flat welded steel bits...easy to scratch build. Show us pics when you finish!
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Jens_O_Mehner
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 16, 2006 12:27 am
Post subject: Re: M551 Vietnam Question

Look dear,

that nice Mr Kibbey has posted some more of his nice Sheridan photos- apparently he has been holding out on us! (Why, that...)

Mmmmmore puh-leaze, Mr Kibbey Wink

Cheers,

Jens O.
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cfbush2000
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 16, 2006 1:20 am
Post subject: Re: M551 Vietnam Question

- Doug_Kibbey
Don't try to make it look too "finished"....it's just flat welded steel bits...easy to scratch build. Show us pics when you finish!


More info! If I may ask a bit more.
1. Was the rack welded directly to the deck? It looks like it is directly over the tool mounts. On some pics it looks elevated.
2. Did the rack extend over the lifting eyes?
3. I know, I'm obsessing here. I'm really an OOB kind of modeller, but sometimes get hung up on a point, like this.
Chuck.
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Roy_A_Lingle
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 16, 2006 2:16 am
Post subject: Re: M551 Vietnam Question

- cfbush2000

More info! If I may ask a bit more.
1. Was the rack welded directly to the deck? It looks like it is directly over the tool mounts. On some pics it looks elevated.
2. Did the rack extend over the lifting eyes?
3. I know, I'm obsessing here. I'm really an OOB kind of modeller, but sometimes get hung up on a point, like this.
Chuck.


Hi Chuck! Hi Folks!

1. NO, rack was steel, hull is aluminum, and even at the direct support level no one had welding gear for aluminum.

The rack had four legs which covered four bolt hole over the rear angled engine deck. If I remember right, those four bolts would be at the far corners of that deck.

2. I not sure, but after looking at C19s rack for a bit, it looks like the rear (bottom) leg is not at the corner of the rack. That would mean the rack does extend behond the edges of the engine deck and possible cover up the lift points some. One way to try and get the width is to find four 20 mm ammo cans, four five gallon water cans or four C-Ration boxs or a fix of water cans and boxes equal to four. Total of eight items in the rack. The 20 mm ammo cans where used by each crew member as a water and dust prouf storage box for personel gear.

3. You can only keep asking questions until you are not hung up.

Here is another (poor) side view of an empty rack for a Charlie Troop Sheridan that was headed home.



Spot Report!
Sgt, Scouts Out!

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"You can never have too much reconnaissance."
General G.S. Patton Jr.


Last edited by Roy_A_Lingle on Thu Feb 16, 2006 2:27 am; edited 3 times in total
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Doug_Kibbey
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 16, 2006 2:21 am
Post subject: Re: M551 Vietnam Question

- cfbush2000
- Doug_Kibbey
Don't try to make it look too "finished"....it's just flat welded steel bits...easy to scratch build. Show us pics when you finish!


More info! If I may ask a bit more.
1. Was the rack welded directly to the deck? It looks like it is directly over the tool mounts. On some pics it looks elevated.
2. Did the rack extend over the lifting eyes?
3. I know, I'm obsessing here. I'm really an OOB kind of modeller, but sometimes get hung up on a point, like this.
Chuck.


Chuck,
I really can't give you any more info on what's a pretty minor detail to recall after 35 years, but I wouldn't sweat it too much either. A certain "latitude" for a field mod like this is acceptable given the improvised nature and circumstances (and some were likely damaged, repaired, altered).

It's the Roy and Doug tag team show...
Well...edit that...Roy got on while I was typing and posted the same pic of his I was putting up...better answer, too! And to the best of my knowledge, you can't weld aluminum to steel directly...but I've been wrong before. Rolling Eyes

that nice Mr Kibbey has posted some more of his nice Sheridan photos- apparently he has been holding out on us! (Why, that...)

Mmmmmore puh-leaze, Mr Kibbey


Not a bit of it Jens...haven't been holding out. Smile Most or all of those pics are either up on my VHPA pages, or had been posted on the "old" forum before...well maybe not the one of the bustle at Littlefield's. I editted a couple down to show some detail for Chuck. All my vehicle pics from VN have been posted on at least one site...usually more than one, over the years.
I have detail shots from the MVTF, but most of those are WAY esoteric and not really unique.

Something special you need?
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Roy_A_Lingle
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Location: El Paso & Ft Bliss, Texas
PostPosted: Thu Feb 16, 2006 2:53 am
Post subject: Re: M551 Vietnam Question

Hi Folks!

Don't know if these will be of much help.

The top one comes out of "Find the Bastards...Then Pile On" by SMAJ Bill Squires, page 59.



This one is from article out of the January February 2000 issue of Armor magazine, page 23



Spot Report from the Doug and Roy team!
Doug what happiened to the HHT M88 operator?
Sgt, Scouts Out!

_________________
"You can never have too much reconnaissance."
General G.S. Patton Jr.
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Doug_Kibbey
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 16, 2006 3:03 am
Post subject: Re: M551 Vietnam Question

- Roy_A_Lingle
Spot Report from the Doug and Roy team!
Doug what happiened to the HHT M88 operator?
Sgt, Scouts Out!


Roy...
'dunno....I emailed him and posted a reply on the old forum so he'd know where to find us. Then again, not everyone is as obsessive about checking in on the forum as some of us are.... Rolling Eyes
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cfbush2000
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 16, 2006 3:13 am
Post subject: Re: M551 Vietnam Question

You guys are amazing!
Roy...Those pics are just what I was looking for. Thanks.
I'll post a pic when I get the rack done.
Thanks again guys.
Chuck
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