±Recent Visitors

Recent Visitors to Com-Central!

±User Info-big


Welcome Anonymous

Nickname
Password

Membership:
Latest: HighestAce
New Today: 0
New Yesterday: 0
Overall: 6648

People Online:
Members: 0
Visitors: 290
Total: 290
Who Is Where:
 Visitors:
01: Home
02: Home
03: Home
04: Home
05: Community Forums
06: Home
07: Home
08: Member Screenshots
09: Community Forums
10: Home
11: Home
12: Home
13: Community Forums
14: Home
15: Community Forums
16: News
17: Community Forums
18: Photo Gallery
19: Photo Gallery
20: Community Forums
21: Home
22: Home
23: Home
24: Home
25: Member Screenshots
26: Home
27: Community Forums
28: Community Forums
29: Community Forums
30: News Archive
31: Community Forums
32: Community Forums
33: Home
34: Community Forums
35: Home
36: Member Screenshots
37: Home
38: Member Screenshots
39: Member Screenshots
40: Home
41: Downloads
42: Community Forums
43: Photo Gallery
44: Home
45: Community Forums
46: Photo Gallery
47: Home
48: Home
49: Member Screenshots
50: Member Screenshots
51: News Archive
52: Downloads
53: Community Forums
54: News Archive
55: Home
56: Community Forums
57: Community Forums
58: Home
59: Community Forums
60: Home
61: Downloads
62: Home
63: Community Forums
64: Photo Gallery
65: Home
66: Home
67: Community Forums
68: Home
69: Home
70: Community Forums
71: Community Forums
72: News Archive
73: Member Screenshots
74: Home
75: Member Screenshots
76: Home
77: Community Forums
78: Community Forums
79: Photo Gallery
80: Community Forums
81: Home
82: Community Forums
83: Home
84: Community Forums
85: Community Forums
86: Home
87: Community Forums
88: Home
89: Community Forums
90: Community Forums
91: Community Forums
92: Community Forums
93: Community Forums
94: Home
95: Community Forums
96: Home
97: Community Forums
98: Community Forums
99: Community Forums
100: Home
101: Home
102: Home
103: Home
104: Community Forums
105: Community Forums
106: Home
107: Community Forums
108: Community Forums
109: Community Forums
110: Community Forums
111: Community Forums
112: Community Forums
113: Community Forums
114: Community Forums
115: Photo Gallery
116: Home
117: Home
118: Community Forums
119: Community Forums
120: Home
121: Community Forums
122: Home
123: Community Forums
124: Home
125: Community Forums
126: Community Forums
127: Member Screenshots
128: Home
129: Home
130: Community Forums
131: Community Forums
132: Home
133: Home
134: Community Forums
135: Community Forums
136: Home
137: Community Forums
138: Community Forums
139: Community Forums
140: Home
141: Home
142: Home
143: Member Screenshots
144: News
145: Photo Gallery
146: Home
147: Photo Gallery
148: News
149: Community Forums
150: Member Screenshots
151: Your Account
152: Search
153: Home
154: Home
155: Community Forums
156: Home
157: Community Forums
158: Home
159: Community Forums
160: Community Forums
161: Community Forums
162: Home
163: Home
164: Community Forums
165: Home
166: Home
167: Member Screenshots
168: Member Screenshots
169: Member Screenshots
170: Community Forums
171: Home
172: Community Forums
173: Home
174: Downloads
175: Downloads
176: Community Forums
177: Home
178: Home
179: Community Forums
180: Community Forums
181: Downloads
182: Home
183: Community Forums
184: Home
185: Community Forums
186: Photo Gallery
187: Community Forums
188: Member Screenshots
189: Member Screenshots
190: Photo Gallery
191: Community Forums
192: Community Forums
193: Home
194: Member Screenshots
195: Home
196: Photo Gallery
197: Community Forums
198: Home
199: Community Forums
200: Community Forums
201: Community Forums
202: Home
203: Community Forums
204: Community Forums
205: Photo Gallery
206: Community Forums
207: Community Forums
208: Community Forums
209: Member Screenshots
210: Community Forums
211: Home
212: Community Forums
213: Community Forums
214: Home
215: Photo Gallery
216: Community Forums
217: Community Forums
218: Community Forums
219: Community Forums
220: Community Forums
221: Community Forums
222: Community Forums
223: Home
224: Downloads
225: Photo Gallery
226: Community Forums
227: Home
228: Photo Gallery
229: News Archive
230: Member Screenshots
231: Community Forums
232: News Archive
233: News Archive
234: Home
235: Community Forums
236: Home
237: Downloads
238: Home
239: Community Forums
240: Community Forums
241: Home
242: Community Forums
243: Home
244: Community Forums
245: Member Screenshots
246: Community Forums
247: Home
248: Community Forums
249: Community Forums
250: News Archive
251: Home
252: Community Forums
253: Community Forums
254: Community Forums
255: Home
256: Community Forums
257: Home
258: Downloads
259: Community Forums
260: Community Forums
261: Community Forums
262: Home
263: Your Account
264: Community Forums
265: Community Forums
266: Downloads
267: Photo Gallery
268: Community Forums
269: Home
270: Home
271: Home
272: Photo Gallery
273: Home
274: Community Forums
275: Community Forums
276: Community Forums
277: Photo Gallery
278: Community Forums
279: Community Forums
280: Community Forums
281: Community Forums
282: Community Forums
283: Home
284: Home
285: Photo Gallery
286: Community Forums
287: Community Forums
288: Community Forums
289: Community Forums
290: Community Forums

Staff Online:

No staff members are online!
Help with an Experimental Vehicle
The AFV ASSOCIATION was formed in 1964 to support the thoughts and research of all those interested in Armored Fighting Vehicles and related topics, such as AFV drawings. The emphasis has always been on sharing information and communicating with other members of similar interests; e.g. German armor, Japanese AFVs, or whatever.
Go to page 1, 2  Next
Post new topic    Reply to topic    Printer Friendly Page     Forum Index ›  AFV News Discussion Board

View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
Dontos
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 3436
Location: Vine Grove, KY
PostPosted: Sat Feb 18, 2006 10:34 pm
Post subject: Help with an Experimental Vehicle

I am battling with a reference in 1954 for a T101 vehicle.


Can anyone help with that?

Unfortunately I don't have any decent references here at home.

_________________
"Gonna hold my breath until Armor returns home..."
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail Visit poster's website AIM Address Yahoo Messenger Photo Gallery
Jinx
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 186
Location: Canada
PostPosted: Sat Feb 18, 2006 11:27 pm
Post subject: Re: Help with an Experimental Vehicle

So far all i have been able to find is mention of the contents of a 1955 newsreel, as follows :

"1955/10/27 The President. 1st Pictures of ike Since His Illness (1) Ike poses for 1st pictures in Denver since Sept 24 heart attack (2) antitank T-101 vehicle with 90mm gun (3) fall fashions by Paul Gillette (partial newsreel) SOURCE: 200 Universal 28-721, National Archives, College Park MD"

Found that at : history.acusd.edu/gen/...ls/60.html
Back to top
View user's profile
Jens_O_Mehner
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 511
Location: Giessen, Germany
PostPosted: Sat Feb 18, 2006 11:42 pm
Post subject: Re: Help with an Experimental Vehicle

Weeeell,

would it help if I told you that the T101 was later standardized as the 90mm Self-Propelled Gun M56 aka SPAT aka Scorpion?

If you have access to Crismon's "US Military Tracked Vehicles", it's on page 167 of the 1992 edition.

HTH

Jens O.
Back to top
View user's profile
Dontos
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 3436
Location: Vine Grove, KY
PostPosted: Sun Feb 19, 2006 12:20 am
Post subject: Re: Help with an Experimental Vehicle

Thanks guys

Actually, both make sense.

I (unfortunately) have limited references at home. Guess I need to focus on building up my personal reference collection.

Thanks

_________________
"Gonna hold my breath until Armor returns home..."
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail Visit poster's website AIM Address Yahoo Messenger Photo Gallery
Doug_Kibbey
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 23, 2006
Posts: 4678
Location: The Great Satan
PostPosted: Sun Feb 19, 2006 12:22 am
Post subject: Re: Help with an Experimental Vehicle

- Jens_O_Mehner
Weeeell,

would it help if I told you that the T101 was later standardized as the 90mm Self-Propelled Gun M56 aka SPAT aka Scorpion?

If you have access to Crismon's "US Military Tracked Vehicles", it's on page 167 of the 1992 edition.

HTH

Jens O.


The very vehicle about which Jacques Littlefield commented to me: "If you took all the elements that would make a good armored vehicle and eliminated them from the design, the M56 is the vehicle you'd end up with." Laughing
Back to top
View user's profile Visit poster's website Photo Gallery
Dontos
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 3436
Location: Vine Grove, KY
PostPosted: Sun Feb 19, 2006 12:46 am
Post subject: Re: Help with an Experimental Vehicle

- Doug_Kibbey
- Jens_O_Mehner
Weeeell,

would it help if I told you that the T101 was later standardized as the 90mm Self-Propelled Gun M56 aka SPAT aka Scorpion?

If you have access to Crismon's "US Military Tracked Vehicles", it's on page 167 of the 1992 edition.

HTH

Jens O.


The very vehicle about which Jacques Littlefield commented to me: "If you took all the elements that would make a good armored vehicle and eliminated them from the design, the M56 is the vehicle you'd end up with." Laughing


...and yet it was fielded, and saw combat service in Vietnam with D Co, 16th Armor.

_________________
"Gonna hold my breath until Armor returns home..."
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail Visit poster's website AIM Address Yahoo Messenger Photo Gallery
Doug_Kibbey
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 23, 2006
Posts: 4678
Location: The Great Satan
PostPosted: Sun Feb 19, 2006 1:19 am
Post subject: Re: Help with an Experimental Vehicle

...Fair enough, Don...then again, what obsolete technology still in the inventory didn't get fielded in Vietnam? Wink It was virtually a dumping ground for every WWII/Korean era weapon for which we still had ammo (the good stuff generally being kept for NATO-support forces). M60's went to Europe, M48's to 'Nam (not that it would have mattered much).
Vietnam was the last (or in some cases, only) conflict to see us really use Recoilless Rifles, ONTOS, SPAT's, M-42 Dusters, M-3 submachine guns, etc.
What was too ancient for American troops to use, got fielded with the ARVN.

I think Mr. Littlefields comment was accurate in that he noted the absence of any sort of meaningful crew protection, ammo stowage, machine guns, modern commo, or any of the things we take for granted regarding a complete AFV package.
Back to top
View user's profile Visit poster's website Photo Gallery
Roy_A_Lingle
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 1997
Location: El Paso & Ft Bliss, Texas
PostPosted: Sun Feb 19, 2006 1:58 am
Post subject: Re: Help with an Experimental Vehicle

Hi Guys!

Hey now! Stop being so hard on the M56 SPAT! Evil or Very Mad

You have to remember the time frame in which that vehicle was developed. It had be air transportable by the aircraft of the day. C-119 Flying Boxcar ring any bells? Rolling Eyes

The requirment for that vehicle came out in 1948. Production ran from 1953 to 1959. Surprised

The first C-130 was delivered in December 1956, three years after the M-56 starting reaching the 82nd and 101st Airborne Divisions. Confused

As for a lack of armor, the proper vehicle to be comparing the SPAT to would be a M38A1 with a M-40 106mm RR.

It's 1955, your in an airborne tank destoryer unit and you have to go kill some tanks. Which would you rather have? A 90mm cannon or a recoilless rifle?

Just because the SPAT has tracks, does not make it an ARMORED fighting vehicle.

My 2 cents on the SPAT.
Sgt, Scouts Out!

_________________
"You can never have too much reconnaissance."
General G.S. Patton Jr.
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail
Doug_Kibbey
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 23, 2006
Posts: 4678
Location: The Great Satan
PostPosted: Sun Feb 19, 2006 2:02 am
Post subject: Re: Help with an Experimental Vehicle

- Roy_A_Lingle
You have to remember the time frame in which that vehicle was developed. It had be air transportable by the aircraft of the day. C-119 Flying Boxcar ring any bells? Rolling Eyes


Would that make it the "Gavin Sr."?

I get your point, Roy...not an AFV...I think of the M56 as basically a piece of towed artillery (or AT gun, if you prefer) that happened to be mounted on some tracks (as distinguished from SP artillery).


Last edited by Doug_Kibbey on Sun Feb 19, 2006 2:04 am; edited 1 time in total
Back to top
View user's profile Visit poster's website Photo Gallery
Roy_A_Lingle
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 1997
Location: El Paso & Ft Bliss, Texas
PostPosted: Sun Feb 19, 2006 2:04 am
Post subject: Re: Help with an Experimental Vehicle

Hi Doug! Hi Folks!

M-56 = Gavin Sr! Sound good to me. About the right time frame to.

Sgt, Scouts Out!

_________________
"You can never have too much reconnaissance."
General G.S. Patton Jr.
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail
C_Sherman
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 590

PostPosted: Sun Feb 19, 2006 2:07 am
Post subject: Re: Help with an Experimental Vehicle

- Doug_Kibbey

Would that make it the "Gavin Sr."?


Hmmm...requirement to be air transportable, etc.? I'm thinking this is actually "Stryker, Sr."!

C

_________________
A positive attitude may not solve all your problems, but it
will annoy enough people to make it worth the effort.
-Herm Albright

Sic gorgiamus allos subjectatos nunc!
Back to top
View user's profile Photo Gallery
JG300-Ascout
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 05, 2005
Posts: 6257
Location: Cyberspace
PostPosted: Sun Feb 19, 2006 2:15 am
Post subject: Re: Help with an Experimental Vehicle

- C_Sherman
- Doug_Kibbey

Would that make it the "Gavin Sr."?


Hmmm...requirement to be air transportable, etc.? I'm thinking this is actually "Stryker, Sr."!

C


Nope, it's tracked. The wheeled Stryker is a non-entity on Planet Sparks.

An Air-Mech strike from black helicopters is on it's way to your location even now for even linking the words "Gavin" and "Stryker" in the same post. Shocked

_________________
"All facts go to clearly prove that Shades is a thrice-cursed traitor & mentally deranged person steeped in inveterate enmity toward mankind"
Back to top
View user's profile Photo Gallery
C_Sherman
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 590

PostPosted: Sun Feb 19, 2006 2:40 am
Post subject: Re: Help with an Experimental Vehicle

Ooops, sorry! I missed the fact that we had made the trip to Planet Sparks. (That place is WEIRD!)

C

_________________
A positive attitude may not solve all your problems, but it
will annoy enough people to make it worth the effort.
-Herm Albright

Sic gorgiamus allos subjectatos nunc!
Back to top
View user's profile Photo Gallery
Dontos
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 3436
Location: Vine Grove, KY
PostPosted: Sun Feb 19, 2006 3:08 am
Post subject: Re: Help with an Experimental Vehicle

I made the inquiry because the only decent hit on the T101 WAS from PLANET SPARKIE!! Shocked

So, in the effort to try to find a shred of reality (and sometime truth Razz ) I figured that I would pose the question to the DG.

AND True to form, ya'll have not let me down.

Thank You

_________________
"Gonna hold my breath until Armor returns home..."
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail Visit poster's website AIM Address Yahoo Messenger Photo Gallery
Sabot
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 380
Location: Kentucky
PostPosted: Sun Feb 19, 2006 12:47 pm
Post subject: Re: Help with an Experimental Vehicle

Rangers and engineers were still using the 90mm recoilless rifle through the 1980s. I think the last combat use of the RCL was during Grenada by US Army Rangers.

_________________
RobG
Back to top
View user's profile AIM Address
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic    Reply to topic    Printer Friendly Page    Forum Index ›  AFV News Discussion Board
Page 1 of 2
All times are GMT - 6 Hours
Go to page 1, 2  Next



Jump to:  


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You cannot attach files in this forum
You cannot download files in this forum