±Recent Visitors

Recent Visitors to Com-Central!

±User Info-big


Welcome Anonymous

Nickname
Password

Membership:
Latest: HighestAce
New Today: 0
New Yesterday: 0
Overall: 6648

People Online:
Members: 0
Visitors: 364
Total: 364
Who Is Where:
 Visitors:
01: Community Forums
02: Home
03: Home
04: Home
05: Member Screenshots
06: Home
07: Community Forums
08: Community Forums
09: Downloads
10: Community Forums
11: Community Forums
12: Community Forums
13: Community Forums
14: Home
15: Community Forums
16: Home
17: News
18: Community Forums
19: Community Forums
20: Downloads
21: Community Forums
22: Home
23: Community Forums
24: Home
25: Home
26: Downloads
27: Community Forums
28: Downloads
29: Home
30: Home
31: Home
32: Home
33: Home
34: Statistics
35: Home
36: Home
37: Home
38: Home
39: Your Account
40: Home
41: News
42: Community Forums
43: Community Forums
44: Home
45: Photo Gallery
46: Home
47: Home
48: Home
49: Downloads
50: Photo Gallery
51: Community Forums
52: Community Forums
53: Community Forums
54: Your Account
55: Home
56: Community Forums
57: Home
58: Community Forums
59: News Archive
60: Community Forums
61: Home
62: Community Forums
63: Downloads
64: Photo Gallery
65: Home
66: Member Screenshots
67: Home
68: News Archive
69: Community Forums
70: Home
71: Community Forums
72: Community Forums
73: Photo Gallery
74: Community Forums
75: Community Forums
76: Home
77: Home
78: Home
79: Downloads
80: Community Forums
81: Member Screenshots
82: Community Forums
83: Community Forums
84: Community Forums
85: Home
86: Home
87: News Archive
88: Community Forums
89: Downloads
90: Home
91: Member Screenshots
92: Home
93: Photo Gallery
94: Home
95: Community Forums
96: Home
97: Community Forums
98: Community Forums
99: Member Screenshots
100: Home
101: Home
102: Community Forums
103: Home
104: Community Forums
105: Statistics
106: Community Forums
107: Community Forums
108: Community Forums
109: Community Forums
110: Home
111: Community Forums
112: Community Forums
113: Community Forums
114: Home
115: Community Forums
116: Community Forums
117: Community Forums
118: Community Forums
119: Home
120: Community Forums
121: News Archive
122: Home
123: Downloads
124: Photo Gallery
125: Photo Gallery
126: Community Forums
127: Home
128: News Archive
129: Home
130: Community Forums
131: Member Screenshots
132: Downloads
133: Community Forums
134: Home
135: Community Forums
136: Downloads
137: Community Forums
138: Community Forums
139: Downloads
140: Home
141: Home
142: Home
143: Home
144: Home
145: Community Forums
146: Community Forums
147: Home
148: Home
149: News
150: Home
151: Community Forums
152: Community Forums
153: Member Screenshots
154: Home
155: Home
156: Community Forums
157: Community Forums
158: Home
159: Downloads
160: Home
161: Home
162: Community Forums
163: Home
164: Community Forums
165: Home
166: Home
167: Community Forums
168: Community Forums
169: Community Forums
170: News Archive
171: Community Forums
172: Member Screenshots
173: Community Forums
174: Community Forums
175: Downloads
176: Home
177: Photo Gallery
178: Community Forums
179: Home
180: Home
181: Community Forums
182: LinkToUs
183: Home
184: Home
185: Community Forums
186: Community Forums
187: Community Forums
188: Home
189: Community Forums
190: Downloads
191: Community Forums
192: Community Forums
193: Downloads
194: Home
195: Community Forums
196: Downloads
197: Home
198: Member Screenshots
199: Community Forums
200: Community Forums
201: Community Forums
202: Community Forums
203: News
204: Home
205: Home
206: Home
207: News Archive
208: Member Screenshots
209: Home
210: Community Forums
211: Home
212: Community Forums
213: Home
214: Community Forums
215: Member Screenshots
216: Community Forums
217: Photo Gallery
218: Community Forums
219: Home
220: Home
221: Home
222: Home
223: Community Forums
224: Community Forums
225: News Archive
226: Community Forums
227: Community Forums
228: Member Screenshots
229: Home
230: Community Forums
231: Community Forums
232: Member Screenshots
233: Community Forums
234: Community Forums
235: Home
236: Community Forums
237: Home
238: Home
239: Community Forums
240: Photo Gallery
241: Home
242: News Archive
243: Home
244: Home
245: Home
246: Home
247: Community Forums
248: Home
249: Community Forums
250: Community Forums
251: Community Forums
252: Home
253: Home
254: Home
255: Community Forums
256: Home
257: Home
258: Community Forums
259: Home
260: Community Forums
261: Home
262: Home
263: Community Forums
264: Home
265: Community Forums
266: Home
267: Home
268: Community Forums
269: News
270: Community Forums
271: Home
272: Photo Gallery
273: Community Forums
274: Home
275: Home
276: Downloads
277: Community Forums
278: Home
279: Community Forums
280: Community Forums
281: Community Forums
282: Community Forums
283: Community Forums
284: Home
285: Community Forums
286: Community Forums
287: Member Screenshots
288: Community Forums
289: Home
290: Member Screenshots
291: Home
292: Member Screenshots
293: Community Forums
294: Downloads
295: Home
296: Downloads
297: Community Forums
298: News Archive
299: Community Forums
300: Home
301: Member Screenshots
302: Community Forums
303: Home
304: News Archive
305: Downloads
306: Community Forums
307: Community Forums
308: Community Forums
309: Home
310: Community Forums
311: Downloads
312: Home
313: Home
314: Downloads
315: Community Forums
316: Community Forums
317: News Archive
318: Community Forums
319: Community Forums
320: Home
321: Community Forums
322: Home
323: Community Forums
324: Photo Gallery
325: Downloads
326: Member Screenshots
327: News Archive
328: Community Forums
329: Search
330: Member Screenshots
331: Community Forums
332: Community Forums
333: Home
334: Community Forums
335: Community Forums
336: Community Forums
337: Home
338: Home
339: Search
340: Photo Gallery
341: Community Forums
342: Community Forums
343: Community Forums
344: Home
345: Photo Gallery
346: Community Forums
347: Community Forums
348: Home
349: Community Forums
350: Community Forums
351: Home
352: Home
353: Community Forums
354: Home
355: Community Forums
356: Community Forums
357: Community Forums
358: Downloads
359: Home
360: Home
361: Home
362: Member Screenshots
363: Community Forums
364: Community Forums

Staff Online:

No staff members are online!
Bardonecchia. Forte Bramafam (Italy)
A forum dedicated for the discussion of all kinds of artillery topics.
Go to page 1, 2  Next
Post new topic    Reply to topic    Printer Friendly Page     Forum Index ›  Artillery Forum

View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
Massimo_Foti
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Apr 08, 2008
Posts: 5397
Location: Lugano, Switzerland
PostPosted: Mon Mar 26, 2012 12:16 pm
Post subject: Bardonecchia. Forte Bramafam (Italy)

As far as I know, there are only 3 survivors of this model:


210 mm mod. 1935 by Massimo Foti, on Flickr
Back to top
View user's profile
Massimo_Foti
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Apr 08, 2008
Posts: 5397
Location: Lugano, Switzerland
PostPosted: Mon Mar 26, 2012 12:34 pm
Post subject: Re: Bardonecchia. Forte Bramafam (Italy)

The 149mm is much more common. It keep serving after WW II. There is one even in Sinsheim


149 mm mod. 1937 by Massimo Foti, on Flickr
Back to top
View user's profile
Massimo_Foti
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Apr 08, 2008
Posts: 5397
Location: Lugano, Switzerland
PostPosted: Mon Mar 26, 2012 12:44 pm
Post subject: Re: Bardonecchia. Forte Bramafam (Italy)

A wide-angle shot:


210 mm mod. 1935 by Massimo Foti, on Flickr
Back to top
View user's profile
Massimo_Foti
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Apr 08, 2008
Posts: 5397
Location: Lugano, Switzerland
PostPosted: Mon Mar 26, 2012 1:01 pm
Post subject: Re: Bardonecchia. Forte Bramafam (Italy)

A french design, it served in WW I. It was still the mainstay of italian divisional artillery in WW II. This piece is on loan from "Museo dell'Artiglieria" Torino:


105 mm mod. 1913 by Massimo Foti, on Flickr
Back to top
View user's profile
Massimo_Foti
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Apr 08, 2008
Posts: 5397
Location: Lugano, Switzerland
PostPosted: Mon Mar 26, 2012 1:45 pm
Post subject: Re: Bardonecchia. Forte Bramafam (Italy)


100 mm mod. 1914 by Massimo Foti, on Flickr
Back to top
View user's profile
Doug_Kibbey
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 23, 2006
Posts: 4678
Location: The Great Satan
PostPosted: Mon Mar 26, 2012 4:25 pm
Post subject: Re: Bardonecchia. Forte Bramafam (Italy)

Pretty nice location for a museum. Former Alpini outpost?
Back to top
View user's profile Visit poster's website Photo Gallery
Massimo_Foti
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Apr 08, 2008
Posts: 5397
Location: Lugano, Switzerland
PostPosted: Mon Mar 26, 2012 8:35 pm
Post subject: Re: Bardonecchia. Forte Bramafam (Italy)

It's one among the forts along the french-italian border. This one covered the Frejus's tunnel. Since a few years a group of volunteers is turning it into a new life. Their website is in italian, but you can get the idea:
www.fortebramafam.it/

In the same area you can find another two, world-class, much bigger forts, that have a longer history behind them:
www.fortediexilles.it/
www.fortedifenestrelle.com/

All the places above are pretty easy to reach from Torino

Massimo
Back to top
View user's profile
Massimo_Foti
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Apr 08, 2008
Posts: 5397
Location: Lugano, Switzerland
PostPosted: Tue Mar 27, 2012 5:09 pm
Post subject: Re: Bardonecchia. Forte Bramafam (Italy)

I am taking this opportunity to talk a bit about italian artillery in WW II.

By the early thirties the Army realized the whole artillery was in need of an upgrade, it was entirely based on WW I and large amount of guns were former austro-hungarian (75 mm mountain howitzer, 100mm and 150mm howitzer all were Skoda). The heavy models were the worst of all.

So they start designing and testing new models, the process took a few years, but resulted in some world-class models. Above you can see 210mm:
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/..._da_210/22

And 149mm howitzers:
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/...modello_37

The 149mm gun was equally impressive:
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/...modello_35

So was the anti-aircraft 90mm:
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/...e_da_90/53

All the four guns above compared well to anything available elsewhere during WW II. Their heavy Breda tractors were pretty good too.

There were also new 75mm design, but I’ll talk about them later on, once I’ll have some more pictures posted.

Main problem was that Italy had very limited industrial capabilities, and was suffering from a chronic lack of raw materials, especially metal alloys required for modern artillery. On top of that, at the very same time the Italian Navy was building battleships like never before, spreading the limited resources even more.

The Ethiopian War and Spanish Civil War made things worst, the Italian Army spend large amounts of its budget on them and consumed a lot of material from the storage, material that was very hard to replace giving the limited resources at hand. One side-effect was that in the late thirties all the new heavy artillery models got very little priority compared to the urgency of filling again the empty depots of existing equipment and ammunition.

If you look at the history of the artillery pieces I mentioned above, all their designs was finalized by 1937. Yet little if any gun was available by 1940 and only a very limited amount of them reached the front line up to 1943. A typical case of too little, too late.

On top of that, the few that were available were spread too thin, most went to Russia, were they couldn’t make any real difference, and the Italian Army in North Africa kept fighting with WW I artillery, including pieces that at the time already deserved a place in a museum like the old 149mm:
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/...a_149/35_A
Back to top
View user's profile
Massimo_Foti
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Apr 08, 2008
Posts: 5397
Location: Lugano, Switzerland
PostPosted: Tue Mar 27, 2012 5:13 pm
Post subject: Re: Bardonecchia. Forte Bramafam (Italy)

One of these can be seen in Saumur too. This piece is on loan from "Museo dell'Artiglieria" Torino:


75 mm mod. 1935 by Massimo Foti, on Flickr
Back to top
View user's profile
Massimo_Foti
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Apr 08, 2008
Posts: 5397
Location: Lugano, Switzerland
PostPosted: Tue Mar 27, 2012 5:14 pm
Post subject: Re: Bardonecchia. Forte Bramafam (Italy)

Another one on loan from "Museo dell'Artiglieria" Torino:


75 mm mod. 1934 by Massimo Foti, on Flickr
Back to top
View user's profile
Massimo_Foti
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Apr 08, 2008
Posts: 5397
Location: Lugano, Switzerland
PostPosted: Tue Mar 27, 2012 6:07 pm
Post subject: Re: Bardonecchia. Forte Bramafam (Italy)

The two guns above are variants of the same 75/18 design. It was also used on the Semovente da 75/18:
preservedtanks.com/Typ...oryId=5400

Massimo
Back to top
View user's profile
Massimo_Foti
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Apr 08, 2008
Posts: 5397
Location: Lugano, Switzerland
PostPosted: Thu Mar 29, 2012 10:57 am
Post subject: Re: Bardonecchia. Forte Bramafam (Italy)

The whole set is now on Flickr:
www.flickr.com/photos/...306630228/

Massimo
Back to top
View user's profile
howitzer
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Sep 28, 2010
Posts: 14
Location: Kolín, Czech Republic
PostPosted: Mon Apr 09, 2012 5:50 pm
Post subject: Re: Bardonecchia. Forte Bramafam (Italy)

Hi,
Do not you know how was the mark of howitzer M14 labeled in your photo in Italy army?I think that the barrel is mark 14,but the shield and wheels are new.
Thank you,
Jan
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail Visit poster's website
Massimo_Foti
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Apr 08, 2008
Posts: 5397
Location: Lugano, Switzerland
PostPosted: Sat Apr 14, 2012 4:49 pm
Post subject: Re: Bardonecchia. Forte Bramafam (Italy)

The wheels were changed by the Italians to be used with motorized tractors. I can't tell you about the shield.
As far as I remember some additional guns were manufactured by Italian factories, but I may be wrong

Massimo
Back to top
View user's profile
howitzer
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Sep 28, 2010
Posts: 14
Location: Kolín, Czech Republic
PostPosted: Sun Apr 15, 2012 5:12 pm
Post subject: Re: Bardonecchia. Forte Bramafam (Italy)

Thanks for your answer. I think that adaptation arised progress in 50.years. Leather I don't know if it leads officialy.The shield was probably used from mark number 16, but the wheels are new.
Jan
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail Visit poster's website
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic    Reply to topic    Printer Friendly Page    Forum Index ›  Artillery Forum
Page 1 of 2
All times are GMT - 6 Hours
Go to page 1, 2  Next



Jump to:  


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You cannot attach files in this forum
You cannot download files in this forum