±Recent Visitors

Recent Visitors to Com-Central!

±User Info-big


Welcome Anonymous

Nickname
Password

Membership:
Latest: HighestAce
New Today: 0
New Yesterday: 0
Overall: 6648

People Online:
Members: 0
Visitors: 436
Total: 436
Who Is Where:
 Visitors:
01: Community Forums
02: Home
03: Photo Gallery
04: News Archive
05: Community Forums
06: Home
07: Community Forums
08: Member Screenshots
09: Community Forums
10: Community Forums
11: Member Screenshots
12: Photo Gallery
13: Home
14: Community Forums
15: Home
16: Member Screenshots
17: Community Forums
18: Community Forums
19: Downloads
20: Community Forums
21: Community Forums
22: Home
23: Community Forums
24: Community Forums
25: Photo Gallery
26: Home
27: Community Forums
28: Home
29: Photo Gallery
30: Home
31: Home
32: Member Screenshots
33: Home
34: Photo Gallery
35: Photo Gallery
36: Community Forums
37: Community Forums
38: Photo Gallery
39: Home
40: Community Forums
41: Community Forums
42: Community Forums
43: Photo Gallery
44: Photo Gallery
45: Member Screenshots
46: Community Forums
47: Photo Gallery
48: Downloads
49: Community Forums
50: Statistics
51: Community Forums
52: Home
53: Home
54: Photo Gallery
55: Home
56: News Archive
57: Photo Gallery
58: Member Screenshots
59: Community Forums
60: Home
61: Community Forums
62: Community Forums
63: Member Screenshots
64: Photo Gallery
65: Community Forums
66: Member Screenshots
67: Member Screenshots
68: Community Forums
69: Home
70: Community Forums
71: Home
72: Photo Gallery
73: Photo Gallery
74: Home
75: Downloads
76: Photo Gallery
77: Community Forums
78: Photo Gallery
79: Photo Gallery
80: Photo Gallery
81: Photo Gallery
82: Community Forums
83: Community Forums
84: Photo Gallery
85: Community Forums
86: Community Forums
87: Community Forums
88: Photo Gallery
89: Community Forums
90: Photo Gallery
91: Downloads
92: Downloads
93: Member Screenshots
94: Community Forums
95: Community Forums
96: Community Forums
97: Home
98: Photo Gallery
99: Photo Gallery
100: Member Screenshots
101: Photo Gallery
102: Community Forums
103: Downloads
104: Home
105: Community Forums
106: Member Screenshots
107: Photo Gallery
108: Member Screenshots
109: Community Forums
110: Photo Gallery
111: Photo Gallery
112: Photo Gallery
113: Downloads
114: Community Forums
115: Community Forums
116: Photo Gallery
117: Community Forums
118: Home
119: Downloads
120: Community Forums
121: Photo Gallery
122: Home
123: Community Forums
124: Home
125: Community Forums
126: Member Screenshots
127: Photo Gallery
128: Photo Gallery
129: Community Forums
130: Downloads
131: Downloads
132: Home
133: News Archive
134: Member Screenshots
135: Photo Gallery
136: Photo Gallery
137: Home
138: Photo Gallery
139: Downloads
140: Community Forums
141: Member Screenshots
142: Community Forums
143: Community Forums
144: Community Forums
145: Community Forums
146: Community Forums
147: Community Forums
148: Photo Gallery
149: Photo Gallery
150: Your Account
151: Photo Gallery
152: Community Forums
153: Community Forums
154: Community Forums
155: Community Forums
156: Downloads
157: Community Forums
158: Photo Gallery
159: Home
160: Home
161: Photo Gallery
162: Community Forums
163: Community Forums
164: Downloads
165: Photo Gallery
166: Community Forums
167: Community Forums
168: Member Screenshots
169: Photo Gallery
170: Community Forums
171: Community Forums
172: Member Screenshots
173: Photo Gallery
174: Photo Gallery
175: Community Forums
176: Member Screenshots
177: Home
178: Photo Gallery
179: Photo Gallery
180: Photo Gallery
181: Member Screenshots
182: Member Screenshots
183: Member Screenshots
184: Community Forums
185: Community Forums
186: Member Screenshots
187: Home
188: Home
189: Community Forums
190: Photo Gallery
191: Member Screenshots
192: Member Screenshots
193: Photo Gallery
194: Community Forums
195: Home
196: Home
197: Home
198: Member Screenshots
199: Home
200: Photo Gallery
201: Home
202: Photo Gallery
203: Community Forums
204: Member Screenshots
205: Downloads
206: Downloads
207: Member Screenshots
208: Photo Gallery
209: Community Forums
210: Community Forums
211: Photo Gallery
212: Photo Gallery
213: Home
214: Community Forums
215: Home
216: Home
217: Member Screenshots
218: Home
219: Downloads
220: Home
221: Community Forums
222: Photo Gallery
223: Photo Gallery
224: Photo Gallery
225: Community Forums
226: Photo Gallery
227: Home
228: Photo Gallery
229: Home
230: Home
231: Home
232: Community Forums
233: Member Screenshots
234: Community Forums
235: Community Forums
236: Home
237: Photo Gallery
238: Statistics
239: Home
240: Community Forums
241: Statistics
242: Your Account
243: Photo Gallery
244: Downloads
245: Photo Gallery
246: Photo Gallery
247: Community Forums
248: Photo Gallery
249: Photo Gallery
250: Home
251: Member Screenshots
252: Member Screenshots
253: Community Forums
254: Downloads
255: Community Forums
256: Home
257: Downloads
258: Member Screenshots
259: Home
260: Photo Gallery
261: Community Forums
262: Member Screenshots
263: Member Screenshots
264: Member Screenshots
265: Home
266: Community Forums
267: Home
268: Your Account
269: Community Forums
270: Community Forums
271: Downloads
272: Photo Gallery
273: Downloads
274: Statistics
275: Community Forums
276: Home
277: Home
278: Community Forums
279: Statistics
280: Home
281: Home
282: Downloads
283: Photo Gallery
284: Home
285: Home
286: Home
287: Home
288: Home
289: Community Forums
290: Home
291: Community Forums
292: Downloads
293: Community Forums
294: Community Forums
295: Statistics
296: Downloads
297: Home
298: Downloads
299: Photo Gallery
300: Community Forums
301: Photo Gallery
302: Community Forums
303: Home
304: Statistics
305: Home
306: Downloads
307: Community Forums
308: Photo Gallery
309: Member Screenshots
310: Member Screenshots
311: Statistics
312: Community Forums
313: Home
314: Community Forums
315: Home
316: Community Forums
317: Photo Gallery
318: Community Forums
319: Photo Gallery
320: Photo Gallery
321: Community Forums
322: Photo Gallery
323: Photo Gallery
324: Downloads
325: Community Forums
326: Home
327: Photo Gallery
328: Community Forums
329: Home
330: Community Forums
331: Downloads
332: Member Screenshots
333: Member Screenshots
334: Member Screenshots
335: Photo Gallery
336: Downloads
337: Member Screenshots
338: Photo Gallery
339: Member Screenshots
340: Home
341: Member Screenshots
342: Community Forums
343: Community Forums
344: Home
345: Home
346: Community Forums
347: Statistics
348: Home
349: Community Forums
350: Community Forums
351: Home
352: Photo Gallery
353: Member Screenshots
354: Photo Gallery
355: Home
356: Photo Gallery
357: Home
358: Photo Gallery
359: Home
360: Home
361: Home
362: Community Forums
363: Home
364: Photo Gallery
365: Downloads
366: Home
367: Photo Gallery
368: Community Forums
369: Home
370: Your Account
371: Photo Gallery
372: Home
373: Community Forums
374: Downloads
375: Home
376: Home
377: Home
378: Community Forums
379: Photo Gallery
380: Community Forums
381: Photo Gallery
382: Your Account
383: Photo Gallery
384: Home
385: Community Forums
386: Community Forums
387: Downloads
388: Downloads
389: Member Screenshots
390: Home
391: Photo Gallery
392: Community Forums
393: Downloads
394: Photo Gallery
395: Member Screenshots
396: Home
397: Downloads
398: Photo Gallery
399: Statistics
400: Community Forums
401: Photo Gallery
402: Community Forums
403: Photo Gallery
404: Community Forums
405: Member Screenshots
406: Home
407: Home
408: Member Screenshots
409: Home
410: Community Forums
411: Member Screenshots
412: Home
413: Downloads
414: Photo Gallery
415: Community Forums
416: Community Forums
417: Photo Gallery
418: Downloads
419: Photo Gallery
420: Downloads
421: Photo Gallery
422: Photo Gallery
423: Community Forums
424: Community Forums
425: Downloads
426: Photo Gallery
427: Your Account
428: Member Screenshots
429: Member Screenshots
430: Community Forums
431: Member Screenshots
432: Member Screenshots
433: Member Screenshots
434: Community Forums
435: News Archive
436: Community Forums

Staff Online:

No staff members are online!
last surviving duplex drive sherman in the world
The AFV ASSOCIATION was formed in 1964 to support the thoughts and research of all those interested in Armored Fighting Vehicles and related topics, such as AFV drawings. The emphasis has always been on sharing information and communicating with other members of similar interests; e.g. German armor, Japanese AFVs, or whatever.
Go to page 1, 2  Next
Post new topic    Reply to topic    Printer Friendly Page     Forum Index ›  AFV News Discussion Board

View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
jtrowbridge5
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 234

PostPosted: Wed Apr 12, 2006 12:17 pm
Post subject: last surviving duplex drive sherman in the world

bovingtons only surviving dd sherman

dennis

community.webshots.com...ity=zXvjYc
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail
Sabot
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 380
Location: Kentucky
PostPosted: Wed Apr 12, 2006 12:27 pm
Post subject: Re: last surviving duplex drive sherman in the world

How in the world could they tell where they were going?

_________________
RobG
Back to top
View user's profile AIM Address
Doug_Kibbey
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 23, 2006
Posts: 4678
Location: The Great Satan
PostPosted: Wed Apr 12, 2006 12:37 pm
Post subject: Re: last surviving duplex drive sherman in the world

- Sabot
How in the world could they tell where they were going?


I think the TC was elevated and talked the driver through it...act of faith, for sure. Like a Sheridan with the swim barrier up, but no window in the surfboard (which wasn't all that great a view, lemme' tell ya'...)
Back to top
View user's profile Visit poster's website Photo Gallery
geoffsteer
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 114

PostPosted: Wed Apr 12, 2006 12:57 pm
Post subject: Re: last surviving duplex drive sherman in the world

Hi Dennis-
There are two other Duplex drive Shermans in existence, one is somewhere in England and was salvaged off a section of beach that saw alot of amphibious training exercises during WW-II. This particular Sherman's salvaging was the subject of a book published around twenty years ago, written by a pub owner who received a thank you letter from, then president, Ronald Reagan. The other Duplex drive Sherman is sitting off a beach in Italy. I think this one has been salvaged and is now sitting on dry land but I am not to sure about this. So, maby we cannot count this one as being among the living. This is not intended as a correction to your post, just letting you know that, happily, the Bovington Duplex drive Sherman is not without siblings!
Regards-
Geoff Steer [;-{/) Smile
Back to top
View user's profile
bsmart
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 23, 2006
Posts: 2523
Location: Central Maryland
PostPosted: Wed Apr 12, 2006 1:13 pm
Post subject: Re: last surviving duplex drive sherman in the world

There is also a DD at Aberdeen. It is a later 'test' vehicle. I think it has a 76mm gun and possibly HVSS.

Neil do you have a picture?

_________________
Bob Smart ([email protected])
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail
jtrowbridge5
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 234

PostPosted: Wed Apr 12, 2006 1:30 pm
Post subject: Re: last surviving duplex drive sherman in the world

sorry, don't want to disagree with anyone on this, only going by what the museum told me[ and the sign on the front].maybe its the only one in original condition IE-canvas surround
dennis
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail
Roy_A_Lingle
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 1997
Location: El Paso & Ft Bliss, Texas
PostPosted: Wed Apr 12, 2006 1:58 pm
Post subject: Re: last surviving duplex drive sherman in the world

Hi Sabot! Hi Folks!

- Sabot

How in the world could they tell where they were going?


There was a small platform added to the top of the turret just behind the TC's hatch. In Dennis' link, check photo number XX3 where you can see the number 50 on the turret. Look to the rear and you can see the brace that supports the back edge along with a pair of boots of a trooper standing on it. There was a fixed post for him to hold on to with one hand. With the other hand his control a tiller that was mounted on the engine deck with linkage that ran to the rear of the hull and down to the props. There was also a connection that went through the rear upper hull plate and worked it's way up the the driver's position.

The TC would control the tiller until time for him to get under armor, then the driver would take control. Some time ago there was a link off the Mr. Bradford's main page to a site titled "AFV Interiors" by Mike Kendall. He had a great write up and lots of photos of the Duplex Drive system.

Mike, did you make the tranfer? This would be a good point to post that drawing you had of the linkage, if that is OK.

Remaining DD tank count.
1. US Army DD lost during a VIP demonstration at Slapton Sands in England, now a Memorial on the beach there.
2. A Canadian DD, named BOLD, from the 6th Armoured Regiment (1st Hussars) lost off Juno, recovered 27 years later, now a Canadian Memorial at Courseulles-sur-Mer in France.
3. A 741st DD at the Musuem of Underwater Wreaks in France.
4. The restored one at Bovington.
5. A 753rd Tk Bn vehicle lost during training off Salerno, now restored with a working screen system at the Piana delle Orme Museum in Italy. The Patton Museum tried to get this one, but the US Navy salavge ship broke some cables and ran out of time. About year later, the Italian divers who had found it were able to get another salavge ship to recover it. While no crewmen were lost when this one sank, one of the Italain divers died during the second salavge effort. I would call that an example of AFVs can still hurt and kill you no matter how old their are.
6. This one doesn't really count because it maybe a post WWII test vehicle. APG has a M4A3(or maybe an ex-British A2)E8 76mm DD. It still has the frame, but the screen is long gone. This one had been on the 'Mile of Tanks', now in a motor pool with other vehicles, showed up in a History Channel Show with Dr. Attwater standing next to the rear while explaining the frame works and pointing out a remaining small piece of the screen.
7. & 8. Still in the water off Omaha, seen on TLC's 'Underwater Detectives' program last year sometime.

Spot Report!
Sgt, Scouts Out! Smile

_________________
"You can never have too much reconnaissance."
General G.S. Patton Jr.
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail
Neil_Baumgardner
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 3942
Location: Arlington, VA
PostPosted: Wed Apr 12, 2006 3:26 pm
Post subject: Re: last surviving duplex drive sherman in the world

- bsmart
There is also a DD at Aberdeen. It is a later 'test' vehicle. I think it has a 76mm gun and possibly HVSS.

Neil do you have a picture?


Yes, but not from great angles of course:





Neil
Back to top
View user's profile
Jinx
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 186
Location: Canada
PostPosted: Wed Apr 12, 2006 10:48 pm
Post subject: Re: last surviving duplex drive sherman in the world

How much water were these expected to cross? (I am assuming the sea state had to be pretty much "swimming pool calm".....?)

And was the full crew in place when it was in the water?

(And no, i am not going to ask the next question.....because i am too afraid of the answer.)
Back to top
View user's profile
Neil_Baumgardner
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 3942
Location: Arlington, VA
PostPosted: Wed Apr 12, 2006 11:30 pm
Post subject: Re: last surviving duplex drive sherman in the world

- Jinx
How much water were these expected to cross? (I am assuming the sea state had to be pretty much "swimming pool calm".....?)

And was the full crew in place when it was in the water?

(And no, i am not going to ask the next question.....because i am too afraid of the answer.)


They were expected to cross 6000 yards, with full crew. Of 29 launched, only 2 made it to shore on their own. Another 35 were brought directly to shore by their LCTs, against orders. Some of the 27 are still on the bottom of the Normandy coast, although I understand all bodies were retrieved.

Here's some links:
www.sproe.com/t/tank-dd.html
www.bbc.co.uk/news/hi/...016280.stm
www.moaa.org/magazine/...eptune.asp

Neil
Back to top
View user's profile
Jinx
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 186
Location: Canada
PostPosted: Thu Apr 13, 2006 1:07 am
Post subject: Re: last surviving duplex drive sherman in the world

Thank you kindly for the info. According to the last link many of the crew members of the foundered tanks were able to escape, and were rescued. I feel better knowing that.
Back to top
View user's profile
Roy_A_Lingle
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 1997
Location: El Paso & Ft Bliss, Texas
PostPosted: Thu Apr 13, 2006 1:08 am
Post subject: Re: last surviving duplex drive sherman in the world

Hi Jinx! Hi Folks!

- Jinx
How much water were these expected to cross? (I am assuming the sea state had to be pretty much "swimming pool calm".....?)

And was the full crew in place when it was in the water?

(And no, i am not going to ask the next question.....because i am too afraid of the answer.)


The sad thing is that during all the training that all the Allied DD crews had, very few tanks did sink. The biggest problem was the weather on D-Day. If was far worst that the planners had planned for.

It was just the 741st Tank Bn that had the worst luck. The US 70th over at Utah did put most of their DDs into the water and very few sank. The British and Canadian DD units launched some and landed some on their beachs. While they did have some that sank, it was no where near the level of lost the 741st had.

There is also a question about who's fault it was for following the plan and launching the 741st at 6,000 yards. Some books blame the Navy for sticking to the plan. One book claims the two tank company commanders demanded the Navy follow the plan and launch the tanks. The only good thing is that both the Navy and the Army folks with the 743rd saw what happiend to the 741st and didn't follow it.

Many reports make a big deal out of the lost of those 27 DDs, but in turn fail to give credit to the number of Shermans that did reach Omaha during the morining.

My 2 cents,
Sgt, Scouts Out! Smile

_________________
"You can never have too much reconnaissance."
General G.S. Patton Jr.
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail
Doug_Kibbey
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 23, 2006
Posts: 4678
Location: The Great Satan
PostPosted: Thu Apr 13, 2006 1:16 am
Post subject: Re: last surviving duplex drive sherman in the world

- Neil_Baumgardner

They were expected to cross 6000 yards, with full crew.
Neil


IMO, it would have been asking a lot to expect them to cross 6,000 feet.
Back to top
View user's profile Visit poster's website Photo Gallery
Chris_C
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 29, 2006
Posts: 214
Location: WV, USA
PostPosted: Thu Apr 13, 2006 2:13 am
Post subject: Re: last surviving duplex drive sherman in the world

There was a show on Discovery or something a while back about the DD tanks. It concluded that the trouble wasn't necessarily the distance; the current turned the tanks, and the waves impacting at an angle overwhelmed the support brackets, causing them to sink. I dunno how accurate their conclusions are, but it's an interesting take on the issue.
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail Visit poster's website
David_Clark
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Mar 16, 2006
Posts: 36

PostPosted: Thu Apr 13, 2006 6:57 am
Post subject: Re: last surviving duplex drive sherman in the world

Great photos.

While there are several recovered hulks, the Bovington Sherman DD is the only intact example.

As Roy has pointed out, while 27 of the 29 741st Tank Bn DDs foundered, most of the British and Canadian DDs made it to shore and, together with the Crabs and AVREs landed on shore by LCTs, provided much needed armoured support on the landing beaches.

I have a book at home by a British Sherman DD tank commander (the name escapes me) and it's a fascinating account of training and the D-Day landings.

It seems that the danger of piloting a 30 ton tank supported in rough seas by a canvas and rubber shroud wasn't really an issue and you have to admire those who attempted it.

David
Back to top
View user's profile
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic    Reply to topic    Printer Friendly Page    Forum Index ›  AFV News Discussion Board
Page 1 of 2
All times are GMT - 6 Hours
Go to page 1, 2  Next



Jump to:  


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You cannot attach files in this forum
You cannot download files in this forum