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My boys and I visited the 4th ID meseum today. Figured we better see it before it gets moved to Ft Carson. I have other photos as well of the aircraft, memorials, field guns, etc... I didn't take any though of the foriegn equipment, it just doesn't interest me much. I didn't record any serials or USA numbers because of time constraints, but the boys and I did discuss the many pieces on display as well as the interior displays. If there are any requests for more photo's of any particular vehicle, let me know and I'll do my best to accomidate as time permits.

Is there any word on when the museum will be moving to Fort Carson?

I might try and make it up there one day soon if I can.

Chris Neel

Not to stir the coals too hard....

A majority of the 4th ID museum vehicle display are 'left over' from the old 2nd Ar Div Museum.

When Ft Polk's 5th ID reflagged and moved to Ft Hood in the early 90's, none of the display vehicles at that museum made the migration.

5th ID became 2AD, which became 4th ID.....(confused yet)

The Static Vehicles that were at Ft Hood prior to 1993 (as part of the 2AD Museum) should stay as they belong there.

Just my .02 cents...

Don

Hi Don! Hi Folks!

- Dontos

Not to stir the coals too hard....

The Static Vehicles that were at Ft Hood prior to 1993 (as part of the 2AD Museum) should stay as they belong there.

Just my .02 cents...

Sadly, only the .02 cents of the Office of History and Heraldry (? I think that is their name) has any say.

As I understand it, a team from that office will visit each Army site effective by BRAC. Items that have historical connections to remaining or incoming units or the base will remain. For example anything that would be connected with the history of the 3rd ACR would join that unit's museum collection. Anything thing that is NOT part of the history of the 1st CD (or they already have one), the 3rd ACR, or the base history could be relocated if the Office of H&H has the funds.

My guess is the current 4th ID/Old 2nd AD collection will get scattered to the four winds. Only those vehicles with historical connections to the 4th ID and there is no matching vehicle already at Ft. Carson MAY get moved up there. On the other hand, any vehicle in the current 3rd ACR musuem at Ft. Carson will remain there if a matching vehicle is in the 4th ID collection at Ft. Hood.

However it turns out, things are going to be a mess for a while.
Sgt, Scouts Out!

- SFC_Jeff_Button

Can someone confirm what I think the vehicle in the foreground is?

To me it looks like a Aichilles (M10 refitted with a 17pdr).

If it is there has to be a story as to why it is in the 4th ID museum.

- bsmart

- SFC_Jeff_Button

Can someone confirm what I think the vehicle in the foreground is?
To me it looks like a Aichilles (M10 refitted with a 17pdr).
If it is there has to be a story as to why it is in the 4th ID museum.

I agree with you, it is an Achilles.

As for why it is at Ft. Hood. My guess is base history. During WWII that post was the home of the Tank Destoryer training center.
As for why the 4th ID has it, like Dontos said, most of those 4th ID vehicles were in the 2nd AD's museum collection and the 2nd AD had been at Ft Hood for a long time before it stood down. My Dad was assigned to the 2nd AD during the mid 1960s/Cuban Missile Crisis.

My 2 cents,
Sgt, Scouts Out!

When did the British put the Aichilles into service? Was it actually used in WWII or was it strictly a postwar weapon? The only reason I can think of it being at a U.S. base would have been for training of NATO allies under the MAP program (If I remember correctly the Danes and possibly some other NATO countries got them via the MAP program in the early Cold War era)

That is definitely a vehicle that would have no connection with 4th ID and should stay at Hood. Actually all the TDs should stay at Hood since they trace back to the old Tank Destroyer Command.

Hi Bob! Hi Folks!

- bsmart

Actually all the TDs should stay at Hood since they trace back to the old Tank Destroyer Command.

As long as we are talking about M-10s, M-18s, M-36s, and other WW II vehicles.

As for the M-56 SPAT, I am not so sure. The 4th ID has not always been a mech division. I think it went mech after it returned from Vietnam. It's possible the M-56 may have served with the division during it's streight leg time.

I don't know.
Sgt, Scouts Out!

The M10 Achilles (just one "i") was used during WWII (from 1944 on) as well as for "many years" postwar, according to Chamberlain & Ellis' British and American Tanks of World War Two. As for why there is one (or two - is there also one at the 1st Cav museum?) at Fort Hood?... <shrug>

Neil

Jeff, ditto from the 4th ID thread, I could still use some help sorting out my inventory listings for the two Hood museums. Here's my list for the 4th ID Museum:

2S1 SOV out
BMP-1 SOV out
BRDM-2 SOV out
M2? Bradley USA out
M3 Lee USA out
M3 Stuart USA out
M3A1 Stuart USA out
M4A1(75) Sherman USA out
M4A3E8 Sherman Easy Eight USA out
M5A1 Stuart USA/CAN/PRT? out ex-Portuguese army?
M7 Priest USA out
M7B2 Priest USA out
M8 Greyhound USA out
M40 USA out
M41 Walker Bulldog USA out
M42 Duster USA out
M43 USA out
M44 USA out
M47 Patton USA out
M48 Patton USA out
M59 USA out
M60 USA out SN 1420
M75 USA out Painted RN 12K954
M84 USA out
M103 USA out
M114 USA out
MT-LB SOV out
T43 Heavy Tank USA out
T-55 SOV out
T-72M1 SOV/POL out

Neil

Obviously all the M10s, the M18 and any M36 should STAY at Ft. Hood as that was the TD Center training post. Just my opinion. Otherwise, I understand the desire for units to carry their history with them, but the moving has to be a little hard on older vehicles and equipment.

Gary

For Neil and the rest of you that are interested. I plan to photgraph each vehicle, front and rear, as well as the information board that accompanies each item. Once I do that, I will verify your lists and share photo's that are requested. I just didn't have time when I visited the two museums before. 1st Cav's visit was over my lunch, and 4ID was on a Sunday afternoon between haircuts and mowing the lawn. I want to dedicate a day to run around the post and photograph to my hearts content. I still need to get the M60's behind range control as well.

Hi Jeff,

*urrrppp!* Sorry, that M59 just keeps repeating on me...



Great pics, though. I'm looking forward to the walkarounds as they come.

C