±Recent Visitors

Recent Visitors to Com-Central!

±User Info-big


Welcome Anonymous

Nickname
Password

Membership:
Latest: HighestAce
New Today: 0
New Yesterday: 0
Overall: 6648

People Online:
Members: 0
Visitors: 577
Total: 577
Who Is Where:
 Visitors:
01: Community Forums
02: Home
03: Community Forums
04: Member Screenshots
05: Member Screenshots
06: Community Forums
07: Downloads
08: Photo Gallery
09: Community Forums
10: Community Forums
11: Community Forums
12: Home
13: Community Forums
14: Home
15: Photo Gallery
16: Community Forums
17: Community Forums
18: Home
19: Member Screenshots
20: Photo Gallery
21: Home
22: Community Forums
23: News Archive
24: Community Forums
25: Home
26: Member Screenshots
27: Home
28: Community Forums
29: Member Screenshots
30: Community Forums
31: Community Forums
32: Community Forums
33: Photo Gallery
34: Community Forums
35: Community Forums
36: Community Forums
37: Statistics
38: Home
39: Photo Gallery
40: Community Forums
41: Photo Gallery
42: Member Screenshots
43: Community Forums
44: Photo Gallery
45: Community Forums
46: Community Forums
47: Member Screenshots
48: Photo Gallery
49: Community Forums
50: News Archive
51: Photo Gallery
52: Community Forums
53: Community Forums
54: News Archive
55: Community Forums
56: Photo Gallery
57: Community Forums
58: Statistics
59: Community Forums
60: Photo Gallery
61: Member Screenshots
62: Home
63: Home
64: Community Forums
65: Photo Gallery
66: Community Forums
67: Community Forums
68: Home
69: Home
70: Community Forums
71: Home
72: Community Forums
73: Photo Gallery
74: Home
75: Home
76: Home
77: Downloads
78: Community Forums
79: Photo Gallery
80: Photo Gallery
81: Community Forums
82: Statistics
83: Community Forums
84: Photo Gallery
85: Community Forums
86: Photo Gallery
87: Community Forums
88: Downloads
89: Community Forums
90: Photo Gallery
91: Photo Gallery
92: Member Screenshots
93: Community Forums
94: Community Forums
95: Home
96: Community Forums
97: Photo Gallery
98: Photo Gallery
99: Photo Gallery
100: Photo Gallery
101: Home
102: Community Forums
103: Member Screenshots
104: Home
105: Home
106: Home
107: Member Screenshots
108: Member Screenshots
109: Home
110: Home
111: Photo Gallery
112: Home
113: News Archive
114: News Archive
115: Photo Gallery
116: Downloads
117: Community Forums
118: Home
119: Photo Gallery
120: Photo Gallery
121: Community Forums
122: Home
123: Downloads
124: Community Forums
125: Photo Gallery
126: Photo Gallery
127: Community Forums
128: Photo Gallery
129: Community Forums
130: Photo Gallery
131: Downloads
132: Home
133: Downloads
134: Home
135: Community Forums
136: Community Forums
137: Photo Gallery
138: Photo Gallery
139: Photo Gallery
140: Community Forums
141: Community Forums
142: Community Forums
143: Photo Gallery
144: Home
145: Community Forums
146: Member Screenshots
147: Your Account
148: Photo Gallery
149: Downloads
150: Member Screenshots
151: Photo Gallery
152: Home
153: Community Forums
154: Member Screenshots
155: Photo Gallery
156: Downloads
157: Community Forums
158: Home
159: Home
160: Home
161: Photo Gallery
162: Home
163: Community Forums
164: Member Screenshots
165: Community Forums
166: Photo Gallery
167: Member Screenshots
168: Downloads
169: Statistics
170: Community Forums
171: Photo Gallery
172: Home
173: Photo Gallery
174: Home
175: Downloads
176: Member Screenshots
177: Community Forums
178: Photo Gallery
179: Photo Gallery
180: Member Screenshots
181: Statistics
182: News Archive
183: Community Forums
184: Statistics
185: Member Screenshots
186: Home
187: Community Forums
188: Community Forums
189: News Archive
190: Home
191: Photo Gallery
192: Community Forums
193: News Archive
194: Photo Gallery
195: Community Forums
196: Home
197: Member Screenshots
198: Member Screenshots
199: Statistics
200: Community Forums
201: Photo Gallery
202: Photo Gallery
203: Home
204: Community Forums
205: Member Screenshots
206: Home
207: Downloads
208: Downloads
209: Photo Gallery
210: Photo Gallery
211: Community Forums
212: Community Forums
213: Home
214: Home
215: Downloads
216: Community Forums
217: Member Screenshots
218: Photo Gallery
219: Photo Gallery
220: Community Forums
221: Community Forums
222: Community Forums
223: Community Forums
224: Home
225: Home
226: Community Forums
227: Contact
228: Community Forums
229: Downloads
230: Downloads
231: Photo Gallery
232: Photo Gallery
233: Statistics
234: Photo Gallery
235: Home
236: Community Forums
237: Photo Gallery
238: Your Account
239: Member Screenshots
240: Community Forums
241: Downloads
242: News Archive
243: Home
244: Home
245: News Archive
246: Community Forums
247: Community Forums
248: Community Forums
249: Home
250: Downloads
251: Community Forums
252: Downloads
253: Community Forums
254: Home
255: Home
256: Photo Gallery
257: Home
258: Community Forums
259: Community Forums
260: Home
261: Community Forums
262: News
263: Community Forums
264: Downloads
265: Home
266: Home
267: Community Forums
268: Photo Gallery
269: Community Forums
270: Photo Gallery
271: Community Forums
272: Member Screenshots
273: Member Screenshots
274: Photo Gallery
275: Member Screenshots
276: Community Forums
277: Community Forums
278: Home
279: Downloads
280: Community Forums
281: Home
282: Photo Gallery
283: Community Forums
284: Home
285: Photo Gallery
286: Photo Gallery
287: Community Forums
288: Community Forums
289: Photo Gallery
290: Community Forums
291: News Archive
292: Community Forums
293: Home
294: Downloads
295: Community Forums
296: Community Forums
297: Member Screenshots
298: Member Screenshots
299: Home
300: Community Forums
301: Photo Gallery
302: Photo Gallery
303: Downloads
304: Community Forums
305: Downloads
306: Photo Gallery
307: Member Screenshots
308: Member Screenshots
309: Community Forums
310: Home
311: Community Forums
312: Photo Gallery
313: Downloads
314: Community Forums
315: Home
316: Member Screenshots
317: Community Forums
318: Home
319: Downloads
320: Home
321: Your Account
322: Community Forums
323: Home
324: Home
325: Home
326: Home
327: Member Screenshots
328: Community Forums
329: Community Forums
330: Home
331: Community Forums
332: Home
333: Community Forums
334: Community Forums
335: Photo Gallery
336: Community Forums
337: Downloads
338: Community Forums
339: Community Forums
340: Community Forums
341: Community Forums
342: Member Screenshots
343: Photo Gallery
344: Home
345: Community Forums
346: Community Forums
347: Member Screenshots
348: Photo Gallery
349: Home
350: News Archive
351: Member Screenshots
352: Home
353: Downloads
354: Downloads
355: Statistics
356: Home
357: Community Forums
358: Community Forums
359: Downloads
360: Home
361: Member Screenshots
362: Member Screenshots
363: Photo Gallery
364: Photo Gallery
365: Photo Gallery
366: Photo Gallery
367: Photo Gallery
368: Photo Gallery
369: Downloads
370: Photo Gallery
371: Photo Gallery
372: Photo Gallery
373: Photo Gallery
374: Community Forums
375: Home
376: Community Forums
377: Photo Gallery
378: News Archive
379: Photo Gallery
380: Photo Gallery
381: Community Forums
382: Downloads
383: Photo Gallery
384: Community Forums
385: Home
386: Photo Gallery
387: Home
388: Photo Gallery
389: Home
390: Home
391: Community Forums
392: Community Forums
393: Home
394: Home
395: Community Forums
396: Photo Gallery
397: Member Screenshots
398: Home
399: Community Forums
400: Photo Gallery
401: Home
402: Downloads
403: Community Forums
404: Photo Gallery
405: Downloads
406: Photo Gallery
407: Home
408: Photo Gallery
409: Community Forums
410: Photo Gallery
411: Photo Gallery
412: Photo Gallery
413: Community Forums
414: Photo Gallery
415: Community Forums
416: Member Screenshots
417: Photo Gallery
418: Member Screenshots
419: Community Forums
420: Home
421: Community Forums
422: Photo Gallery
423: Community Forums
424: Community Forums
425: Contact
426: Member Screenshots
427: Home
428: Community Forums
429: Statistics
430: News Archive
431: Community Forums
432: Home
433: Home
434: Community Forums
435: Downloads
436: Photo Gallery
437: Home
438: Photo Gallery
439: Downloads
440: Community Forums
441: Photo Gallery
442: Photo Gallery
443: Photo Gallery
444: Home
445: Photo Gallery
446: Community Forums
447: Home
448: Photo Gallery
449: Member Screenshots
450: Community Forums
451: Downloads
452: Photo Gallery
453: Home
454: Photo Gallery
455: Photo Gallery
456: Photo Gallery
457: Home
458: Member Screenshots
459: News Archive
460: Community Forums
461: Member Screenshots
462: Home
463: Home
464: Photo Gallery
465: Home
466: Photo Gallery
467: Downloads
468: Community Forums
469: News Archive
470: Photo Gallery
471: Home
472: Community Forums
473: Downloads
474: Downloads
475: Home
476: Community Forums
477: Community Forums
478: Downloads
479: Community Forums
480: Home
481: Home
482: Community Forums
483: Photo Gallery
484: News Archive
485: Photo Gallery
486: Community Forums
487: Home
488: Community Forums
489: Photo Gallery
490: Downloads
491: Member Screenshots
492: Community Forums
493: Home
494: Photo Gallery
495: Community Forums
496: Community Forums
497: Statistics
498: Home
499: Home
500: Downloads
501: Community Forums
502: Home
503: Photo Gallery
504: Community Forums
505: Member Screenshots
506: Photo Gallery
507: Photo Gallery
508: Home
509: Member Screenshots
510: Your Account
511: Photo Gallery
512: Photo Gallery
513: Photo Gallery
514: Photo Gallery
515: Member Screenshots
516: Photo Gallery
517: Community Forums
518: Home
519: Home
520: News Archive
521: Community Forums
522: Photo Gallery
523: Photo Gallery
524: Community Forums
525: Community Forums
526: Photo Gallery
527: Photo Gallery
528: Photo Gallery
529: Statistics
530: Community Forums
531: Photo Gallery
532: Community Forums
533: Photo Gallery
534: Photo Gallery
535: Photo Gallery
536: Community Forums
537: Community Forums
538: Your Account
539: Home
540: Community Forums
541: Community Forums
542: Photo Gallery
543: Community Forums
544: Downloads
545: Downloads
546: Photo Gallery
547: Photo Gallery
548: Community Forums
549: Community Forums
550: Home
551: Member Screenshots
552: Community Forums
553: Community Forums
554: Community Forums
555: News Archive
556: Home
557: Photo Gallery
558: Photo Gallery
559: Photo Gallery
560: Photo Gallery
561: News
562: Photo Gallery
563: News
564: Your Account
565: Photo Gallery
566: Community Forums
567: Photo Gallery
568: Member Screenshots
569: Member Screenshots
570: Home
571: Member Screenshots
572: Member Screenshots
573: Community Forums
574: Photo Gallery
575: Community Forums
576: Home
577: Community Forums

Staff Online:

No staff members are online!
Recoilless Rifles & Avalanche Control
The AFV ASSOCIATION was formed in 1964 to support the thoughts and research of all those interested in Armored Fighting Vehicles and related topics, such as AFV drawings. The emphasis has always been on sharing information and communicating with other members of similar interests; e.g. German armor, Japanese AFVs, or whatever.
Post new topic    Reply to topic    Printer Friendly Page     Forum Index ›  AFV News Discussion Board

View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
Dontos
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 3436
Location: Vine Grove, KY
PostPosted: Sun Mar 18, 2007 12:03 am
Post subject: Recoilless Rifles & Avalanche Control

Just found this surfin' around...

Thought about Thread with discussed this, awhile ago....

A 105 mm. recoilless rifle fired for avalanche control. This fixed installation is at Alta, Utah.





Don
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail Visit poster's website AIM Address Yahoo Messenger Photo Gallery
JG300-Ascout
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 05, 2005
Posts: 6258
Location: Cyberspace
PostPosted: Sun Mar 18, 2007 12:10 am
Post subject: Re: Recoilless Rifles & Avalanche Control

The Ascout, it is said, is VERY familiar with Alta and these installations. Mostly they use propane and other explosive methods now, for lack of ammo, but he recalls when they did use the 106 a lot, since he's been skiing there for, oh, about 25 years:

www.com-central.net/in...pic&t=6183


_________________
"All facts go to clearly prove that Shades is a thrice-cursed traitor & mentally deranged person steeped in inveterate enmity toward mankind"


Last edited by JG300-Ascout on Sun Mar 18, 2007 1:01 am; edited 1 time in total
Back to top
View user's profile Photo Gallery
Dontos
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 3436
Location: Vine Grove, KY
PostPosted: Sun Mar 18, 2007 12:25 am
Post subject: Re: Recoilless Rifles & Avalanche Control

Not about Avalanche...

But does the track on this Taiwanese M733 Look familiar???

(...hint: Lingle Track?...)



Don
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail Visit poster's website AIM Address Yahoo Messenger Photo Gallery
JG300-Ascout
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 05, 2005
Posts: 6258
Location: Cyberspace
PostPosted: Sun Mar 18, 2007 12:53 am
Post subject: Re: Recoilless Rifles & Avalanche Control

www.alaskarails.org/sn...JC-gun.jpg

"An avalanche on January 31, 1998 took out 200 feet of track, over turned three coal cars and closed the route for several days. To help manage the heavy snow accumulation from the hills and mountains above, the Alaska Railroad uses a 105mm recoilless rifle. Before the snow accumulates into an unmanageable menace, workers fire a round at an overhang or drift and knock it down.

From Frank Dewey, Alaska Railroad locomotive engineer (12/22/99): "In 1998 the (2) ARRC 106mm recoilless rifles were retired and replaced with an ex-US Army 105mm howitzer with Hy-rail gear mounted on the original gun carriage. The reason was that the "Korean War" vintage weapon had run out of ammunition. Supplied to many third world nations the 106mm stockpiles were used up by Viet Nam and numerous other wars. In 1990 the ARRC paid for the last 3000 rounds to be refurbished for avalanche control.

"The howitzer and ammunition is kept at Tunnel Section House at MP51, between Slide Zone 49 and Slide Zone 53. It is safe there as the only way to get there is by rail or helicopter. Tests were conducted by the ARRC and the US Army/National Guard with a 105mm howitzer mounted on a 50 ft. flatcar, caboose and with a military gun crew to operate it. Now you know that there is a prototype for those HO Scale ROCO guns!

"Originally, the gun was a home made "thing" that used either propane or acetylene gas for propellant. You might say "the mother of all potato guns" to lob an explosive package into the slide chute. Not exactly long range or accurate. It was replaced with a 75mm recoilless, but ammo stocks were already low and the more powerful 106 was soon available.

"Sometimes the ARR will use helicopters to bomb the slide areas."

www.alaskarails.org/AR...hting.html


And avalanche history at ALTA with lots of pics of guns....how about Recoiless Rifles on PICKUP TRUCKS?! Mr. Green

And a French 75mm howitzer!!!!!!

...and a 4.2 inch mortar (Where is Jeff Button?!)

www.avalanche.org/~moo...20Alta.htm


_________________
"All facts go to clearly prove that Shades is a thrice-cursed traitor & mentally deranged person steeped in inveterate enmity toward mankind"
Back to top
View user's profile Photo Gallery
JG300-Ascout
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 05, 2005
Posts: 6258
Location: Cyberspace
PostPosted: Sun Mar 18, 2007 1:47 am
Post subject: Re: Recoilless Rifles & Avalanche Control

Even MORE wonderful 75mm howitzer and RR shots from ALTA with some history:

www.avalanche.org/~moo...tories.htm


This is an "avalauncher", which is what has basically replaced the RR's and conventional guns, when hand thrown bombs won't do. Propane-powered, this one is at Snowbird, which is just next door to and ajoins Alta up Little Cottonwood Canyon:

www.dpowder.com/dpowdr...cherSB.gif

BTW, Don, the link in the previous post on the Alta history features several pics with E.R. LaChapelle in them, the author of the study where you likely found the pic you posted of the 105RR (as is the first link in this post). A legendary figure around Alta.

www.avalanche.org/~moo...asting.htm

Alta was originally a mining camp and is one of the oldest ski areas in the U.S. Still on U.S. Forest Service land, it's not "privately owned" and is rigorously controlled and in a very avalanche prone area...even getting there...as my wife can now attest...we had to take the bypass last month even to get there...the pass was closed for a stretch for two days.

_________________
"All facts go to clearly prove that Shades is a thrice-cursed traitor & mentally deranged person steeped in inveterate enmity toward mankind"
Back to top
View user's profile Photo Gallery
JG300-Ascout
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 05, 2005
Posts: 6258
Location: Cyberspace
PostPosted: Sun Mar 18, 2007 3:17 am
Post subject: Re: Recoilless Rifles & Avalanche Control

Atigun Pass, Alaska, northernmost highway pass in the state.
105mm


_________________
"All facts go to clearly prove that Shades is a thrice-cursed traitor & mentally deranged person steeped in inveterate enmity toward mankind"
Back to top
View user's profile Photo Gallery
SFC_Jeff_Button
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 1311
Location: Ft Hood, TX
PostPosted: Sun Mar 18, 2007 1:50 pm
Post subject: Re: Recoilless Rifles & Avalanche Control

"And avalanche history at ALTA with lots of pics of guns....how about Recliless Rifles on PICKUP TRUCKS?!

And a French 75mm howitzer!!!!!!

...and a 4.2 inch mortar (Where is Jeff Button?!)"

Here is Jeff Button!
I do suppose a mortar could be used, the bigger the better due to range requirements and size of the explosion. Here's how the following mortars would size up for this job range wise;

60mm M224 3500meters
81mm M29A1 4790meters
81mm M252 5600meters
107mm M30 6840meters
120mm M120 7200meters

That would be a cool (in more ways than one)way to make a living after retirement and still get to use your favorite weapon system.

_________________
SFC Jeff Button "High Angle Hell"
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail Photo Gallery
JG300-Ascout
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 05, 2005
Posts: 6258
Location: Cyberspace
PostPosted: Sun Mar 18, 2007 2:02 pm
Post subject: Re: Recoilless Rifles & Avalanche Control

Hi Jeff!

Usually, the range involved is not great, seldom more than a few hundred meters, maybe as much as a thousand in the case of a ski resort....mainly further than the ski patrol can throw or safely carry the two pound plastic bombs that are typically used to precipitate an avalanche. Accuracy is not at a premium either, it's more about concussion effect. I'd guess that keeping duds at a minimum and unsuitable warheads had more to do with the choice of systems in the end, plus a lack of ammo for the recoiless systems, which were low maintenence and you didn't have to worry about what charge to use and all them little baggies as with mortars. (Not to mention how much easier "direct fire" is to master for mere mortals).

The "avalaunchers" don't have that problem...just dial up some propane, stick in the bomb, and say "boom". It's basically like the ceremonial retreat gun that used to be over the cannon on the Sherman at Ft. Knox or like a big spud gun...it just launches the plastic bomb off into the snow further than the ski patrol can throw...simpler and safer, but not as cool to us. Sad

_________________
"All facts go to clearly prove that Shades is a thrice-cursed traitor & mentally deranged person steeped in inveterate enmity toward mankind"
Back to top
View user's profile Photo Gallery
Maple_Leaf_Eh
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 517

PostPosted: Sun Mar 18, 2007 8:35 pm
Post subject: Re: Recoilless Rifles & Avalanche Control

There is a standing artillery task at Roger's Pass in the Canadian Rockies. The gunners fire 105mm howitzers, not RCLs, at snowbanks high up on the mountains to start preemptive avalanches. Better to have a little snowslide than a really big one.

(Language question - Would a prepreemptive action therefore be an emptive action or is that one after the fact?)
Back to top
View user's profile
MarkHolloway
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Apr 08, 2006
Posts: 2054
Location: Beatty, Nevada
PostPosted: Tue Mar 20, 2007 8:40 am
Post subject: Re: Recoilless Rifles & Avalanche Control

Dontos, Looks like M114 track to me.

_________________
"TUMBLEWEED"
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail Photo Gallery
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic    Reply to topic    Printer Friendly Page    Forum Index ›  AFV News Discussion Board
Page 1 of 1
All times are GMT - 6 Hours



Jump to:  


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You cannot attach files in this forum
You cannot download files in this forum