±Recent Visitors

Recent Visitors to Com-Central!

±User Info-big


Welcome Anonymous

Nickname
Password

Membership:
Latest: HighestAce
New Today: 0
New Yesterday: 0
Overall: 6648

People Online:
Members: 0
Visitors: 393
Total: 393
Who Is Where:
 Visitors:
01: Community Forums
02: Home
03: Community Forums
04: Community Forums
05: Home
06: Community Forums
07: Community Forums
08: Downloads
09: Community Forums
10: Home
11: Community Forums
12: Photo Gallery
13: Community Forums
14: Home
15: Home
16: Community Forums
17: Community Forums
18: Home
19: Photo Gallery
20: Home
21: Home
22: Community Forums
23: Home
24: Member Screenshots
25: Community Forums
26: Home
27: Community Forums
28: Home
29: Home
30: Home
31: Your Account
32: Home
33: Member Screenshots
34: Community Forums
35: Community Forums
36: Community Forums
37: Home
38: Home
39: Member Screenshots
40: Home
41: Community Forums
42: Community Forums
43: Home
44: Photo Gallery
45: Home
46: Home
47: Photo Gallery
48: Community Forums
49: Community Forums
50: Community Forums
51: Community Forums
52: Home
53: Home
54: Home
55: Community Forums
56: Community Forums
57: Home
58: Home
59: Community Forums
60: Home
61: Home
62: Your Account
63: Home
64: Community Forums
65: Photo Gallery
66: Community Forums
67: Community Forums
68: Home
69: Home
70: Photo Gallery
71: Home
72: Home
73: Photo Gallery
74: Community Forums
75: Home
76: Home
77: Community Forums
78: Community Forums
79: Photo Gallery
80: Home
81: Community Forums
82: Community Forums
83: Member Screenshots
84: Home
85: Community Forums
86: Community Forums
87: Community Forums
88: Community Forums
89: Community Forums
90: Downloads
91: Community Forums
92: Community Forums
93: Home
94: Home
95: Community Forums
96: Community Forums
97: Home
98: Community Forums
99: Downloads
100: Home
101: Community Forums
102: Home
103: Community Forums
104: Community Forums
105: Community Forums
106: Home
107: Home
108: Downloads
109: Home
110: Home
111: Home
112: Home
113: Your Account
114: Home
115: Community Forums
116: Community Forums
117: Community Forums
118: Photo Gallery
119: Home
120: Home
121: Community Forums
122: Home
123: Home
124: Downloads
125: Home
126: Home
127: Home
128: Community Forums
129: Home
130: Community Forums
131: Community Forums
132: Member Screenshots
133: Community Forums
134: Downloads
135: Downloads
136: Home
137: Home
138: Community Forums
139: Community Forums
140: Community Forums
141: Photo Gallery
142: Community Forums
143: Community Forums
144: Home
145: Community Forums
146: Home
147: Community Forums
148: Photo Gallery
149: Community Forums
150: Member Screenshots
151: Community Forums
152: Home
153: Home
154: Home
155: Community Forums
156: Home
157: Community Forums
158: Community Forums
159: Community Forums
160: Community Forums
161: Home
162: Home
163: Community Forums
164: Community Forums
165: Home
166: Community Forums
167: Community Forums
168: Community Forums
169: Community Forums
170: Home
171: Community Forums
172: Home
173: Home
174: Home
175: Community Forums
176: Community Forums
177: Community Forums
178: Community Forums
179: Community Forums
180: Community Forums
181: Home
182: Community Forums
183: Downloads
184: Photo Gallery
185: Community Forums
186: Community Forums
187: Community Forums
188: Community Forums
189: Community Forums
190: Community Forums
191: Community Forums
192: Your Account
193: Community Forums
194: Home
195: Community Forums
196: Statistics
197: Downloads
198: Home
199: Home
200: Downloads
201: Community Forums
202: Home
203: Photo Gallery
204: Community Forums
205: Community Forums
206: Community Forums
207: Search
208: Home
209: Community Forums
210: News Archive
211: Home
212: Home
213: Home
214: Home
215: Community Forums
216: Community Forums
217: Photo Gallery
218: Home
219: Statistics
220: Home
221: Search
222: Community Forums
223: Downloads
224: Home
225: Home
226: Community Forums
227: Community Forums
228: Community Forums
229: Community Forums
230: Home
231: Community Forums
232: Home
233: Home
234: Home
235: Home
236: Home
237: Home
238: Community Forums
239: Home
240: Community Forums
241: Community Forums
242: Home
243: Community Forums
244: Community Forums
245: Home
246: Home
247: Community Forums
248: Home
249: Photo Gallery
250: Photo Gallery
251: Home
252: Home
253: Downloads
254: Photo Gallery
255: Home
256: Home
257: News
258: Home
259: Home
260: Home
261: Home
262: Community Forums
263: Home
264: Your Account
265: Home
266: Photo Gallery
267: Home
268: Home
269: Community Forums
270: Home
271: Community Forums
272: Photo Gallery
273: Community Forums
274: Home
275: Home
276: Community Forums
277: Home
278: Home
279: Member Screenshots
280: Home
281: Community Forums
282: Home
283: Home
284: Home
285: Home
286: Home
287: Home
288: Home
289: Home
290: Home
291: Home
292: Home
293: Home
294: Home
295: Community Forums
296: Community Forums
297: Home
298: Home
299: Home
300: Home
301: Member Screenshots
302: Home
303: Home
304: Downloads
305: Community Forums
306: Community Forums
307: Home
308: Community Forums
309: Home
310: Home
311: Community Forums
312: Home
313: Community Forums
314: Community Forums
315: Community Forums
316: Home
317: Home
318: Home
319: Home
320: Home
321: Downloads
322: Downloads
323: Community Forums
324: Community Forums
325: Community Forums
326: Home
327: Community Forums
328: Home
329: Community Forums
330: Photo Gallery
331: Community Forums
332: Home
333: Home
334: Home
335: Community Forums
336: Home
337: Community Forums
338: Photo Gallery
339: Community Forums
340: Community Forums
341: Member Screenshots
342: Community Forums
343: Community Forums
344: Community Forums
345: Community Forums
346: Community Forums
347: Community Forums
348: Home
349: Home
350: News
351: Home
352: Community Forums
353: Downloads
354: Community Forums
355: Home
356: Community Forums
357: Community Forums
358: Home
359: Home
360: Home
361: Home
362: Your Account
363: Community Forums
364: Home
365: Home
366: Community Forums
367: Home
368: Community Forums
369: Home
370: Community Forums
371: Downloads
372: Community Forums
373: Community Forums
374: Community Forums
375: Photo Gallery
376: Home
377: Home
378: Community Forums
379: Home
380: Community Forums
381: Home
382: Community Forums
383: Community Forums
384: Home
385: Community Forums
386: Your Account
387: Community Forums
388: Home
389: Community Forums
390: Home
391: Community Forums
392: Community Forums
393: Community Forums

Staff Online:

No staff members are online!
JoeD's Frankenstein (M48A5/M60A2)
The AFV ASSOCIATION was formed in 1964 to support the thoughts and research of all those interested in Armored Fighting Vehicles and related topics, such as AFV drawings. The emphasis has always been on sharing information and communicating with other members of similar interests; e.g. German armor, Japanese AFVs, or whatever.
Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6  Next
Post new topic    Reply to topic    Printer Friendly Page     Forum Index ›  AFV News Discussion Board

View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
JimWeb
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 1439
Location: The back of beyond
PostPosted: Tue Sep 04, 2007 5:42 pm
Post subject: Re: JoeD's Frankenstein (M48A5/M60A2)

- bsmart

I wonder if the travel lock on the rear deck will work with the 152mm?


I was just looking at the travel lock - then went through my available images to check it against what I had but haven't got a clear enough image to check - hasn't it got an extra link in it?

Cool

_________________
TTFN
Jim

If your not a member of JED then your
not serious about anything military..

***********************
www.jedsite.info
JED Military Equipment
***********************
Back to top
View user's profile Visit poster's website ICQ Number
Doug_Kibbey
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 23, 2006
Posts: 4678
Location: The Great Satan
PostPosted: Tue Sep 04, 2007 5:47 pm
Post subject: Re: JoeD's Frankenstein (M48A5/M60A2)

- JimWeb
- bsmart

I wonder if the travel lock on the rear deck will work with the 152mm?


I was just looking at the travel lock - then went through my available images to check it against what I had but haven't got a clear enough image to check - hasn't it got an extra link in it?

Cool


M60a2's did not come equipped with an external travel lock. I doubt the one on the M48 would fit the barrel anyway.
Back to top
View user's profile Visit poster's website Photo Gallery
armyjunk2
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Sep 22, 2006
Posts: 1416

PostPosted: Tue Sep 04, 2007 6:15 pm
Post subject: Re: JoeD's Frankenstein (M48A5/M60A2)

what are those balls that look like trailer hitches??
Back to top
View user's profile
CaptCav
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Aug 20, 2007
Posts: 12

PostPosted: Tue Sep 04, 2007 6:16 pm
Post subject: Re: JoeD's Frankenstein (M48A5/M60A2)

Nahhhh..... that's just a "Plain Jane" M-48A1 travel lock.

BTW - looking at that exhaust/muffler on the rear deck brings back fond memories. In 1956, I was riding in the bustle rack on my dad's M-48A1 at Graf. The -A1 had a weird quirk (which I didn't know about). If you allowed the tank to coast down hill and then stomped on the accelerator - there was a stupendous roar and a huge sheet of flame would leap out of the exhaust (after all, these were GAS burners, lol). I happened to look down, just as that flame roared out. Shocked Needless to say, ole Hankie needed to change his drawers at that point!!! Ahhhh....... the good old daze!!!

ArmyJunk2...... those were the mounting points for the Xenon searchlight. However, when I was a young tank platoon leader; my platoon sergeant was known to tell gullible FNGs (straight outta AIT) those were the tank's male reproductive organs. Razz
Back to top
View user's profile
bsmart
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 23, 2006
Posts: 2523
Location: Central Maryland
PostPosted: Tue Sep 04, 2007 6:47 pm
Post subject: Re: JoeD's Frankenstein (M48A5/M60A2)

- CaptCav
Nahhhh..... that's just a "Plain Jane" M-48A1 travel lock.

BTW - looking at that exhaust/muffler on the rear deck brings back fond memories. In 1956, I was riding in the bustle rack on my dad's M-48A1 at Graf. The -A1 had a weird quirk (which I didn't know about). If you allowed the tank to coast down hill and then stomped on the accelerator - there was a stupendous roar and a huge sheet of flame would leap out of the exhaust (after all, these were GAS burners, lol). I happened to look down, just as that flame roared out. Shocked Needless to say, ole Hankie needed to change his drawers at that point!!! Ahhhh....... the good old daze!!!


Oh yes Dragontails. they would also occur if the tank didn't start right away and raw gas flooded through the engine and exhaust. I know I have bored this group with the story about an M-48A1 that was parked with it's rear near the maintenance tent when a dragontail split the dusk and caught the side f the tent Rolling Eyes

Oh I just got home and checked Hunnicutt M48 & M60 had 85" Turret Rings. The M47 had a 73" ring and the M4, M26, & M46 had 69" rings. Those are all inside diameters

_________________
Bob Smart ([email protected])
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail
CaptCav
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Aug 20, 2007
Posts: 12

PostPosted: Tue Sep 04, 2007 6:53 pm
Post subject: Re: JoeD's Frankenstein (M48A5/M60A2)

Doug_Kibbey...... here's a better pic of the hull/turret fit.

www.odkrywca.pl/forum_...agh_05.jpg

As I remember, it's one of the first M-60A2s. Geezzzzz..... is that a REMF tank or what??!! It has a little ladder on the front slope. Laughing
Back to top
View user's profile
JimWeb
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 1439
Location: The back of beyond
PostPosted: Tue Sep 04, 2007 7:06 pm
Post subject: Re: JoeD's Frankenstein (M48A5/M60A2)

- CaptCav
Doug_Kibbey...... here's a better pic of the hull/turret fit.

www.odkrywca.pl/forum_...agh_05.jpg

As I remember, it's one of the first M-60A2s. Geezzzzz..... is that a REMF tank or what??!! It has a little ladder on the front slope. Laughing


No its the M60A1E1...

Anyone remember the Tamiya model?

Cool

_________________
TTFN
Jim

If your not a member of JED then your
not serious about anything military..

***********************
www.jedsite.info
JED Military Equipment
***********************
Back to top
View user's profile Visit poster's website ICQ Number
Joe_D
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 29, 2006
Posts: 2068
Location: Razorback Country
PostPosted: Tue Sep 04, 2007 7:14 pm
Post subject: Re: JoeD's Frankenstein (M48A5/M60A2)

Hi everyone,

To bad non of the Franken-Tank pictures got posted this weekend when I was home. I cannot view them right now.

This is gonna be a little long,

Right now I still believe this tank is just a cobbled up creation, not a purpose built special/rare tank. I believe this because it is on an M48/48A1 "Gasoline" powered hull. Probably the last thing you would use to sell/test this "XM48A4E1" vehicle Jim mentions. M60A2 turret production started in May of 1966, by then Diesels were the in thing and M48's were being converted to A3's by the hundreds. Only about 300 were made with Generation 3 hulls before work was halted due to Major problems with the turret. It wasn't until 1973 that the first retrofitted tank was delivered. All remaining M60A2's made were equipped with Generation 4 hulls (That's what was being made by then). Another thing to consider is even if they mounted the A2 turret on a 48 hull, you would need to extend the rear hull for the Closed Breech Scavange System. I guess you could put an electric air compressor in the turret to avoid this like the Sheridens had but where would you put it? You'd also would have to cut the turret platform to fit the hull since the turret platform, although having the same ring diameter, hangs lower than the M48's. The A2 turret is completely different than the A1/A3 where you just can't lop off the bottom and raise it without seriously changing many of the internal components to fit. This raises the question, why? Especially since you already have M60 hulls purpose built for the A2 turret. There never was any complaints on the Hull, all the problems were turret related. I can understand the ROC using the A2 turret for shore defense, the range of the missle being very deadly against ships and landing craft. I'm with Doug, not saying it don't exist, stranger things have turned up, I'd just love to see a picture or documentation of this tank.

About the program to equip old M60 turrets on M48's, yes, it was a very serious consideration at one time. The plan was to start producing M60A2's with converted M60 hulls. My reseach so far leads me to conclude that the Army planned to build 600 new M60A2's and then produce later tanks using the old M60 hulls. Serial numbers 4426 to 5025 were designated for these new A2's. This was back in the 60's before the whole project ran into all it's problems. By the time the system got back on track in '73 the project was no longer viable, since they didn't plan on making more than 600, that was later reduced to 540. The new stop gap solution was the M48A5. BTW, the US M48A4 (M48A3 hull with M60 turret) used the M19 Cupola, a very obvious ID feature.

Jim, I would not doubt some CM-11's have old M60A2 hulls. IIRC they puchased complete hulls from us and there would be no reason not to have some A2 hulls that were upgraded for AVLB's not used to be included in that lot. Look for the very obvious CBSS bulge, lower grill overhang and Square tailight gaurds.

Joe D
Back to top
View user's profile Photo Gallery
Doug_Kibbey
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 23, 2006
Posts: 4678
Location: The Great Satan
PostPosted: Tue Sep 04, 2007 7:20 pm
Post subject: Re: JoeD's Frankenstein (M48A5/M60A2)

- JimWeb
- CaptCav
Doug_Kibbey...... here's a better pic of the hull/turret fit.

www.odkrywca.pl/forum_...agh_05.jpg

As I remember, it's one of the first M-60A2s. Geezzzzz..... is that a REMF tank or what??!! It has a little ladder on the front slope. Laughing


No its the M60A1E1...


Cool


And the turret/hull relationship differs from the M60A2 on those in what way, Jim?

- Armyjunk
what are those balls that look like trailer hitches??

The searchlight ball thing was answered on page three, AJ...and there's a good picture of one mounted there as well. The disinctive turret shape is less apparent when the light is mounted. The searchlight was mounted on a separate shaft that exited on the turret left that was slaved to the gun trunnion. You can see the assembly without the light very clearly in this view:


Back to top
View user's profile Visit poster's website Photo Gallery
Doug_Kibbey
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 23, 2006
Posts: 4678
Location: The Great Satan
PostPosted: Tue Sep 04, 2007 7:38 pm
Post subject: Re: JoeD's Frankenstein (M48A5/M60A2)

- armyjunk2
what are those balls that look like trailer hitches??


Hi AJ...
BTW, there should be a set of those hitch balls on this assembly as well, but they're missing. This is the stowage rack for the searchlight when not mounted. You'll see a similar assembly variously on M48's, M60's & M60A1's on and around the turret bustle when the searchlight isn't mounted over the main gun. It wasn't over the main gun on the M60A2 because that would interfere with the missile transmitter/receiver unit (that's what was in that box over the gun).
Back to top
View user's profile Visit poster's website Photo Gallery
armyjunk2
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Sep 22, 2006
Posts: 1416

PostPosted: Tue Sep 04, 2007 7:44 pm
Post subject: Re: JoeD's Frankenstein (M48A5/M60A2)

thank you all
Back to top
View user's profile
JimWeb
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 1439
Location: The back of beyond
PostPosted: Tue Sep 04, 2007 8:02 pm
Post subject: Re: JoeD's Frankenstein (M48A5/M60A2)

- Doug_Kibbey


And the turret/hull relationship differs from the M60A2 on those in what way, Jim?



Jeez Doug even my wife spotted that one - the ladder on the front was only fitted to the M60A1E1 (based on M60 Hull) It was removed for the M60A1E1 APE and the M60A1E2 (based on M60A1 hull).

Information gleaned from Hunnicutt..

Cool

_________________
TTFN
Jim

If your not a member of JED then your
not serious about anything military..

***********************
www.jedsite.info
JED Military Equipment
***********************
Back to top
View user's profile Visit poster's website ICQ Number
Doug_Kibbey
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 23, 2006
Posts: 4678
Location: The Great Satan
PostPosted: Tue Sep 04, 2007 8:08 pm
Post subject: Re: JoeD's Frankenstein (M48A5/M60A2)

- JimWeb
- Doug_Kibbey


And the turret/hull relationship differs from the M60A2 on those in what way, Jim?



Jeez Doug even my wife spotted that one - the ladder on the front was only fitted to the M60A1E1 (based on M60 Hull) It was removed for the M60A1E1 APE and the M60A1E2 (based on M60A1 hull).

Information gleaned from Hunnicutt..

Cool


Yes, but the question was turret/hull relationship, not the significance of the ladder. The point here was illuminating this relationship, not making a point of sharpshooting CaptCav, since I have to spell it out for you. Wink
Back to top
View user's profile Visit poster's website Photo Gallery
JimWeb
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 1439
Location: The back of beyond
PostPosted: Tue Sep 04, 2007 8:20 pm
Post subject: Re: JoeD's Frankenstein (M48A5/M60A2)

- Joe_D

Right now I still believe this tank is just a cobbled up creation, not a purpose built special/rare tank. I believe this because it is on an M48/48A1 "Gasoline" powered hull. Probably the last thing you would use to sell/test this "XM48A4E1" vehicle Jim mentions.


You have to remember that the ROC had and still has a lot of M48/M48A1 though some have been upgraded engine-wise the majority still retain the original engines.


Another thing to consider is even if they mounted the A2 turret on a 48 hull, you would need to extend the rear hull for the Closed Breech Scavange System. I guess you could put an electric air compressor in the turret to avoid this like the Sheridens had but where would you put it? You'd also would have to cut the turret platform to fit the hull since the turret platform, although having the same ring diameter, hangs lower than the M48's. The A2 turret is completely different than the A1/A3 where you just can't lop off the bottom and raise it without seriously changing many of the internal components to fit. This raises the question, why? Especially since you already have M60 hulls purpose built for the A2 turret. There never was any complaints on the Hull, all the problems were turret related.


I suspect you answered your own question here and agin the ROC had a lot of (then) M48 with 90mm guns - it would have been a cheap way of upgrading their tanks.


I can understand the ROC using the A2 turret for shore defense, the range of the missle being very deadly against ships and landing craft. I'm with Doug, not saying it don't exist, stranger things have turned up, I'd just love to see a picture or documentation of this tank.


I suspect that they bought a load of M60A2 and got some US company to conduct a feasability study before abandoning the idea, rusing the hulls for CM11 and relegating the turrets to fortifications.

I may be able to help with an image in a couple of weeks.


Jim, I would not doubt some CM-11's have old M60A2 hulls. IIRC they puchased complete hulls from us and there would be no reason not to have some A2 hulls that were upgraded for AVLB's not used to be included in that lot. Look for the very obvious CBSS bulge, lower grill overhang and Square tailight gaurds.


I'll keep my eyes open - I'm hoping to receive a batch of CM11 images from ROC HQ sometime soon - promised but usually very slow delivering apparently as they have to be cleared & authorised by nearly everyone in Taiwan...

Cool

_________________
TTFN
Jim

If your not a member of JED then your
not serious about anything military..

***********************
www.jedsite.info
JED Military Equipment
***********************
Back to top
View user's profile Visit poster's website ICQ Number
bsmart
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 23, 2006
Posts: 2523
Location: Central Maryland
PostPosted: Tue Sep 04, 2007 10:42 pm
Post subject: Re: JoeD's Frankenstein (M48A5/M60A2)

- CaptCav
Nahhhh..... that's just a "Plain Jane" M-48A1 travel lock.

That is what I thought. Another point in the 'slap a turret on an existing hull' column


ArmyJunk2...... those were the mounting points for the Xenon searchlight. However, when I was a young tank platoon leader; my platoon sergeant was known to tell gullible FNGs (straight outta AIT) those were the tank's male reproductive organs. Razz


Nooo A Professional NCO wouldn't take advantage of a young troop something like that would they Rolling Eyes Now if it was a 2LT Twisted Evil There was a night on the Langley Flightline that we convinced a new LT that we were Draining the F-15s radiators Mr. Green

Young troops were fair game for being sent for 2 yards of flightline or a gallon of propwash. Rolling Eyes Of course there was the time a new guy came back in the shop with a 5 gallon can of Propeller Cleaner the C-130 outfit on the otherside of base gave him and told him they didn't have a smaller container and that it would start deteriorating if it was opened before use. He carried that can the whole 1.5 miles back to our shop in August weather like we had at Aberdeen last week Surprised Someone wanted to tell him it was portside propwash and to go back and get the starboard propwash but the shop chief put a stop to it

_________________
Bob Smart ([email protected])
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic    Reply to topic    Printer Friendly Page    Forum Index ›  AFV News Discussion Board
Page 4 of 6
All times are GMT - 6 Hours
Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6  Next



Jump to:  


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You cannot attach files in this forum
You cannot download files in this forum