±Recent Visitors

Recent Visitors to Com-Central!

±User Info-big


Welcome Anonymous

Nickname
Password

Membership:
Latest: HighestAce
New Today: 0
New Yesterday: 0
Overall: 6648

People Online:
Members: 0
Visitors: 1023
Total: 1023
Who Is Where:
 Visitors:
01: Home
02: Photo Gallery
03: Member Screenshots
04: Community Forums
05: Community Forums
06: Search
07: Member Screenshots
08: Member Screenshots
09: Member Screenshots
10: Home
11: Home
12: Community Forums
13: Home
14: Downloads
15: Home
16: Community Forums
17: Photo Gallery
18: Home
19: News Archive
20: Downloads
21: Community Forums
22: Home
23: Member Screenshots
24: News Archive
25: Home
26: Member Screenshots
27: Community Forums
28: Community Forums
29: Downloads
30: Home
31: Community Forums
32: Member Screenshots
33: Community Forums
34: Home
35: Member Screenshots
36: Home
37: LinkToUs
38: Member Screenshots
39: News Archive
40: Statistics
41: Home
42: Home
43: Community Forums
44: Home
45: Member Screenshots
46: Home
47: Home
48: Home
49: Downloads
50: Member Screenshots
51: News Archive
52: Member Screenshots
53: News Archive
54: Downloads
55: Downloads
56: Downloads
57: Home
58: Home
59: Home
60: Downloads
61: Supporters
62: Community Forums
63: Member Screenshots
64: Community Forums
65: Community Forums
66: Your Account
67: Member Screenshots
68: Community Forums
69: Community Forums
70: Photo Gallery
71: Your Account
72: Community Forums
73: Community Forums
74: Photo Gallery
75: Community Forums
76: Community Forums
77: Home
78: Home
79: Community Forums
80: Community Forums
81: Community Forums
82: Home
83: Community Forums
84: Home
85: Home
86: Community Forums
87: Home
88: Home
89: Community Forums
90: Home
91: Community Forums
92: Community Forums
93: Home
94: Member Screenshots
95: Community Forums
96: Home
97: Home
98: Home
99: Home
100: Community Forums
101: Community Forums
102: Photo Gallery
103: Community Forums
104: News
105: Home
106: Community Forums
107: Member Screenshots
108: Community Forums
109: Photo Gallery
110: Downloads
111: Home
112: Member Screenshots
113: Community Forums
114: Community Forums
115: Community Forums
116: Community Forums
117: Community Forums
118: Community Forums
119: Community Forums
120: Your Account
121: Home
122: Community Forums
123: Home
124: Member Screenshots
125: Home
126: Community Forums
127: Member Screenshots
128: Community Forums
129: Community Forums
130: Home
131: Community Forums
132: Community Forums
133: Photo Gallery
134: Community Forums
135: Member Screenshots
136: Community Forums
137: Community Forums
138: Community Forums
139: Community Forums
140: Photo Gallery
141: Photo Gallery
142: Community Forums
143: Community Forums
144: Downloads
145: News Archive
146: Home
147: Downloads
148: Home
149: Home
150: Search
151: Photo Gallery
152: Community Forums
153: Home
154: Home
155: Member Screenshots
156: News Archive
157: Home
158: Home
159: News Archive
160: Photo Gallery
161: Downloads
162: Community Forums
163: Community Forums
164: Community Forums
165: Member Screenshots
166: Home
167: Community Forums
168: Community Forums
169: Community Forums
170: News Archive
171: News Archive
172: Home
173: Community Forums
174: Home
175: Community Forums
176: Downloads
177: Community Forums
178: Home
179: Photo Gallery
180: News Archive
181: Home
182: Photo Gallery
183: Downloads
184: Community Forums
185: Community Forums
186: Your Account
187: News Archive
188: Community Forums
189: Photo Gallery
190: Community Forums
191: Home
192: Community Forums
193: Community Forums
194: Community Forums
195: Community Forums
196: Community Forums
197: News
198: Community Forums
199: Community Forums
200: Home
201: Community Forums
202: Photo Gallery
203: Statistics
204: News Archive
205: Home
206: Treasury
207: Downloads
208: Community Forums
209: News Archive
210: Your Account
211: Community Forums
212: Community Forums
213: Community Forums
214: Home
215: Home
216: Community Forums
217: Community Forums
218: Home
219: Community Forums
220: Home
221: News
222: Community Forums
223: Home
224: Home
225: Home
226: Home
227: Community Forums
228: Community Forums
229: Community Forums
230: Community Forums
231: Community Forums
232: Home
233: Community Forums
234: Home
235: Community Forums
236: Community Forums
237: Community Forums
238: Your Account
239: Community Forums
240: Downloads
241: Community Forums
242: Home
243: Community Forums
244: Community Forums
245: Community Forums
246: Treasury
247: Community Forums
248: Member Screenshots
249: Member Screenshots
250: Member Screenshots
251: Community Forums
252: News Archive
253: Community Forums
254: Downloads
255: Home
256: Community Forums
257: Home
258: News
259: Community Forums
260: Home
261: Community Forums
262: Community Forums
263: Home
264: Community Forums
265: Home
266: Community Forums
267: Member Screenshots
268: Home
269: Member Screenshots
270: Home
271: Community Forums
272: Home
273: Community Forums
274: Home
275: Tell a Friend
276: Community Forums
277: Community Forums
278: Community Forums
279: Member Screenshots
280: News Archive
281: LinkToUs
282: Community Forums
283: Home
284: Community Forums
285: Photo Gallery
286: Community Forums
287: Photo Gallery
288: Downloads
289: Member Screenshots
290: News Archive
291: Community Forums
292: Home
293: Community Forums
294: Member Screenshots
295: Member Screenshots
296: Member Screenshots
297: Community Forums
298: Your Account
299: Member Screenshots
300: News Archive
301: Community Forums
302: Member Screenshots
303: Home
304: Member Screenshots
305: Home
306: Community Forums
307: Community Forums
308: News Archive
309: Member Screenshots
310: Community Forums
311: Home
312: Home
313: Community Forums
314: Community Forums
315: Downloads
316: Member Screenshots
317: Community Forums
318: Member Screenshots
319: Home
320: News
321: Member Screenshots
322: Community Forums
323: Home
324: Contact
325: Community Forums
326: Home
327: Community Forums
328: Downloads
329: Community Forums
330: News
331: Home
332: Community Forums
333: Community Forums
334: Home
335: Member Screenshots
336: Home
337: Community Forums
338: Community Forums
339: Community Forums
340: Community Forums
341: Photo Gallery
342: Member Screenshots
343: Community Forums
344: Downloads
345: Community Forums
346: Community Forums
347: Home
348: Home
349: Member Screenshots
350: Home
351: News Archive
352: News Archive
353: Home
354: Community Forums
355: Home
356: Member Screenshots
357: Community Forums
358: Home
359: Downloads
360: Community Forums
361: Downloads
362: Member Screenshots
363: Community Forums
364: Downloads
365: Community Forums
366: Community Forums
367: Photo Gallery
368: Community Forums
369: Photo Gallery
370: Downloads
371: Community Forums
372: Community Forums
373: Member Screenshots
374: Downloads
375: Home
376: Community Forums
377: Community Forums
378: Home
379: Community Forums
380: Home
381: Community Forums
382: Community Forums
383: News
384: Community Forums
385: Community Forums
386: Community Forums
387: Community Forums
388: Member Screenshots
389: Member Screenshots
390: Community Forums
391: Photo Gallery
392: Community Forums
393: Community Forums
394: Community Forums
395: News Archive
396: Home
397: Member Screenshots
398: Community Forums
399: Home
400: Community Forums
401: Photo Gallery
402: Community Forums
403: Community Forums
404: Downloads
405: Downloads
406: Community Forums
407: Community Forums
408: Community Forums
409: Community Forums
410: Member Screenshots
411: Downloads
412: Community Forums
413: Home
414: Photo Gallery
415: News Archive
416: Community Forums
417: Community Forums
418: Community Forums
419: Community Forums
420: Member Screenshots
421: Community Forums
422: Home
423: Community Forums
424: Home
425: Community Forums
426: Home
427: Member Screenshots
428: Community Forums
429: Member Screenshots
430: Community Forums
431: Photo Gallery
432: Home
433: Home
434: Photo Gallery
435: Home
436: Member Screenshots
437: Photo Gallery
438: Downloads
439: Community Forums
440: Community Forums
441: Community Forums
442: Home
443: Member Screenshots
444: Member Screenshots
445: Community Forums
446: Downloads
447: News Archive
448: Community Forums
449: Home
450: Photo Gallery
451: Home
452: Photo Gallery
453: Community Forums
454: Your Account
455: Community Forums
456: Community Forums
457: Community Forums
458: Community Forums
459: News
460: Community Forums
461: Home
462: Community Forums
463: Home
464: Community Forums
465: Member Screenshots
466: Community Forums
467: Community Forums
468: Community Forums
469: Home
470: Member Screenshots
471: Community Forums
472: Downloads
473: Community Forums
474: Community Forums
475: Home
476: Community Forums
477: Home
478: Community Forums
479: Community Forums
480: Community Forums
481: Home
482: News Archive
483: Community Forums
484: News Archive
485: Home
486: Home
487: Community Forums
488: Home
489: Community Forums
490: Home
491: Community Forums
492: News Archive
493: News
494: Community Forums
495: Community Forums
496: Community Forums
497: Downloads
498: Home
499: Photo Gallery
500: Supporters
501: Home
502: Home
503: Downloads
504: Home
505: Community Forums
506: Home
507: Community Forums
508: Home
509: Member Screenshots
510: News Archive
511: Downloads
512: Community Forums
513: Community Forums
514: Treasury
515: Community Forums
516: News Archive
517: Home
518: Home
519: Downloads
520: Community Forums
521: Downloads
522: Community Forums
523: Community Forums
524: Home
525: Photo Gallery
526: Community Forums
527: Community Forums
528: Member Screenshots
529: Home
530: Downloads
531: Home
532: Photo Gallery
533: News Archive
534: Statistics
535: Community Forums
536: Community Forums
537: Home
538: Home
539: Community Forums
540: Community Forums
541: Home
542: Home
543: Home
544: Community Forums
545: Statistics
546: Downloads
547: Member Screenshots
548: Supporters
549: Photo Gallery
550: Community Forums
551: Community Forums
552: Photo Gallery
553: Community Forums
554: Photo Gallery
555: Community Forums
556: Home
557: Photo Gallery
558: Community Forums
559: Community Forums
560: Home
561: Community Forums
562: Member Screenshots
563: Photo Gallery
564: Home
565: Community Forums
566: Community Forums
567: Member Screenshots
568: Community Forums
569: News Archive
570: Community Forums
571: Community Forums
572: Supporters
573: Downloads
574: Community Forums
575: News
576: Community Forums
577: Community Forums
578: Community Forums
579: Member Screenshots
580: Community Forums
581: Community Forums
582: Community Forums
583: Member Screenshots
584: Photo Gallery
585: Home
586: Home
587: Photo Gallery
588: News Archive
589: Member Screenshots
590: Downloads
591: Your Account
592: Home
593: Community Forums
594: Your Account
595: Community Forums
596: Community Forums
597: Community Forums
598: Downloads
599: Member Screenshots
600: News
601: Community Forums
602: Community Forums
603: Photo Gallery
604: News Archive
605: Member Screenshots
606: Member Screenshots
607: Community Forums
608: News Archive
609: Photo Gallery
610: Community Forums
611: Community Forums
612: Home
613: Community Forums
614: Community Forums
615: Home
616: Community Forums
617: Community Forums
618: Downloads
619: Community Forums
620: Community Forums
621: Home
622: News
623: Home
624: Photo Gallery
625: Photo Gallery
626: Photo Gallery
627: Home
628: Member Screenshots
629: Member Screenshots
630: Community Forums
631: Community Forums
632: Downloads
633: Community Forums
634: Home
635: Home
636: Community Forums
637: Downloads
638: Community Forums
639: Community Forums
640: Photo Gallery
641: Home
642: Supporters
643: Community Forums
644: Community Forums
645: Member Screenshots
646: Community Forums
647: Community Forums
648: Home
649: Member Screenshots
650: Photo Gallery
651: Community Forums
652: News Archive
653: Community Forums
654: Community Forums
655: Home
656: News Archive
657: Community Forums
658: Downloads
659: News Archive
660: Community Forums
661: Community Forums
662: Downloads
663: Member Screenshots
664: Home
665: Member Screenshots
666: News Archive
667: Community Forums
668: Home
669: Home
670: News Archive
671: Community Forums
672: Photo Gallery
673: Member Screenshots
674: Member Screenshots
675: News Archive
676: Home
677: Community Forums
678: Community Forums
679: Downloads
680: Home
681: News Archive
682: Community Forums
683: Community Forums
684: Member Screenshots
685: Home
686: Downloads
687: News
688: Community Forums
689: Home
690: Community Forums
691: Home
692: Community Forums
693: Community Forums
694: Community Forums
695: Photo Gallery
696: Home
697: Home
698: Community Forums
699: Home
700: Member Screenshots
701: Home
702: Home
703: Home
704: Member Screenshots
705: Photo Gallery
706: Member Screenshots
707: Member Screenshots
708: Community Forums
709: News Archive
710: Home
711: Community Forums
712: Community Forums
713: Member Screenshots
714: Community Forums
715: News
716: Your Account
717: Community Forums
718: Member Screenshots
719: Community Forums
720: Member Screenshots
721: Downloads
722: Home
723: Community Forums
724: Downloads
725: Community Forums
726: Community Forums
727: Home
728: Home
729: Community Forums
730: Community Forums
731: Downloads
732: Community Forums
733: Member Screenshots
734: Member Screenshots
735: News
736: Community Forums
737: Community Forums
738: Photo Gallery
739: Community Forums
740: Home
741: Community Forums
742: Community Forums
743: Downloads
744: Community Forums
745: Home
746: Home
747: Community Forums
748: Community Forums
749: Community Forums
750: Community Forums
751: Community Forums
752: Home
753: Community Forums
754: Home
755: Downloads
756: Community Forums
757: Community Forums
758: Community Forums
759: Community Forums
760: Community Forums
761: Community Forums
762: News Archive
763: Community Forums
764: Photo Gallery
765: Community Forums
766: Home
767: Community Forums
768: Downloads
769: Community Forums
770: Community Forums
771: Home
772: Community Forums
773: Community Forums
774: Community Forums
775: Community Forums
776: Community Forums
777: News
778: News Archive
779: Community Forums
780: Home
781: Community Forums
782: Member Screenshots
783: Community Forums
784: Home
785: Community Forums
786: Home
787: Community Forums
788: Your Account
789: Community Forums
790: Community Forums
791: Community Forums
792: Home
793: Home
794: Community Forums
795: News Archive
796: Community Forums
797: Community Forums
798: Community Forums
799: Community Forums
800: Community Forums
801: Community Forums
802: Statistics
803: Community Forums
804: News Archive
805: Community Forums
806: Community Forums
807: Community Forums
808: Home
809: Community Forums
810: Community Forums
811: Community Forums
812: Member Screenshots
813: Community Forums
814: Home
815: Community Forums
816: Home
817: Community Forums
818: Community Forums
819: Home
820: Community Forums
821: Community Forums
822: Home
823: Community Forums
824: Community Forums
825: Home
826: Home
827: Community Forums
828: Community Forums
829: Community Forums
830: Home
831: Home
832: Home
833: Community Forums
834: Community Forums
835: Community Forums
836: Community Forums
837: Home
838: Home
839: Community Forums
840: Treasury
841: Community Forums
842: Downloads
843: Home
844: Community Forums
845: Home
846: Home
847: Home
848: Community Forums
849: Community Forums
850: Home
851: Home
852: Community Forums
853: Community Forums
854: Community Forums
855: Home
856: Community Forums
857: Home
858: Community Forums
859: Community Forums
860: Community Forums
861: Community Forums
862: Home
863: Home
864: Home
865: Home
866: Home
867: Community Forums
868: Community Forums
869: Community Forums
870: Community Forums
871: Your Account
872: Community Forums
873: Community Forums
874: Home
875: Home
876: Community Forums
877: Community Forums
878: Community Forums
879: Community Forums
880: Community Forums
881: Community Forums
882: Community Forums
883: Community Forums
884: Community Forums
885: Community Forums
886: Home
887: Community Forums
888: Home
889: Community Forums
890: Community Forums
891: Community Forums
892: Home
893: Home
894: Community Forums
895: Community Forums
896: Community Forums
897: Home
898: Home
899: Community Forums
900: Community Forums
901: Photo Gallery
902: Home
903: Community Forums
904: Community Forums
905: Community Forums
906: Community Forums
907: Community Forums
908: Community Forums
909: Home
910: Community Forums
911: News Archive
912: Community Forums
913: Home
914: Home
915: Community Forums
916: Home
917: Community Forums
918: News Archive
919: Home
920: Home
921: Community Forums
922: Community Forums
923: Community Forums
924: Community Forums
925: Downloads
926: Home
927: Home
928: Community Forums
929: Community Forums
930: Community Forums
931: Home
932: Community Forums
933: Community Forums
934: Home
935: Community Forums
936: Your Account
937: Home
938: Community Forums
939: Community Forums
940: Home
941: Community Forums
942: Home
943: Community Forums
944: Home
945: Community Forums
946: Community Forums
947: Home
948: Community Forums
949: Home
950: Home
951: Home
952: Community Forums
953: Community Forums
954: Community Forums
955: Home
956: Home
957: Community Forums
958: Community Forums
959: News Archive
960: Home
961: Community Forums
962: Home
963: Community Forums
964: Community Forums
965: Home
966: Home
967: Community Forums
968: Community Forums
969: Home
970: Home
971: Community Forums
972: Community Forums
973: Community Forums
974: Home
975: Community Forums
976: Community Forums
977: Home
978: Community Forums
979: Community Forums
980: Community Forums
981: Home
982: Home
983: Community Forums
984: Community Forums
985: Home
986: Home
987: Community Forums
988: Community Forums
989: Community Forums
990: Home
991: Home
992: Community Forums
993: Community Forums
994: Community Forums
995: Home
996: Home
997: Community Forums
998: Community Forums
999: Community Forums
1000: Community Forums
1001: Community Forums
1002: Home
1003: Home
1004: Community Forums
1005: News
1006: Community Forums
1007: Community Forums
1008: Community Forums
1009: Community Forums
1010: Home
1011: Downloads
1012: Home
1013: Community Forums
1014: Community Forums
1015: Community Forums
1016: Community Forums
1017: Home
1018: Home
1019: Community Forums
1020: Community Forums
1021: Home
1022: Home
1023: Community Forums

Staff Online:

No staff members are online!
Why accuracy problems with allied subjects? A rant...
The AFV ASSOCIATION was formed in 1964 to support the thoughts and research of all those interested in Armored Fighting Vehicles and related topics, such as AFV drawings. The emphasis has always been on sharing information and communicating with other members of similar interests; e.g. German armor, Japanese AFVs, or whatever.
Post new topic    Reply to topic    Printer Friendly Page     Forum Index ›  AFV News Discussion Board

View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
geoffsteer
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 114

PostPosted: Fri Jun 16, 2006 6:04 pm
Post subject: Why accuracy problems with allied subjects? A rant...

Hi Guys-
With the news that the Academy Lee's bogies are 2mm to high, I began to wonder why it is that just about all the releases of Allied subjects have so many accuracy problems? The M18 Hellcats from AFV Club and Academy have numerous problems although, strangely, they do not have the same problems. Reviewers actually recommended buying both kits and swapping the accurate parts between them! AFV Club's and Academy's M10 kits share the same problem as their respective M18s. Academy's Stuarts were not much of an improvement over the now thirty years old Tamiya offerings! The Tamiya Stuart's wheels and bogies were actually, according to reviewers, better! The list could go on but you get the idea by now. One thought that does occur is this; If every German subject had the same amount of problems as those of allied subjects the hounds of hell would be set loose! Also, it must surely be the case that allied armour would be easier to research than German armour as so much more allied stuff survived the war and continued on into post war use.
Please note that I said "just about all" as Dragon's recent Sherman releases seem to be the exception to the above. Above all, please be aware that this is NOT an anti german armour kit crusade!!!!
Thanks for listening-
Geoff Steer [;-{/) Mad
Back to top
View user's profile
Roy_A_Lingle
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 1997
Location: El Paso & Ft Bliss, Texas
PostPosted: Fri Jun 16, 2006 7:00 pm
Post subject: Re: Why accuracy problems with allied subjects? A rant...

Hi Geoff! Hi Folks!

I wonder if the availabley of old Allied vehicles could be part of the problem. Just a guess on my part, but could it be that do to the lack of Axis vehicles, the model companies use blue prints to develope their Axis kits. While they go out and take photos and measurements of Allied equipment. Equipment that is worn from use and exposure.

How many photo have we all seen posted here of vehicles that set lower than they should do to the weaking of the suspension items?

Then again, there is Trumpeter's Strv 103 kit where the length of the hull was short changed somehow. Evil or Very Mad

It would be great if the model companies would have someone hang out here and runs their new kits passed all of Us folks as they develope them.

Sgt, Scouts Out! Smile

_________________
"You can never have too much reconnaissance."
General G.S. Patton Jr.
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail
JeffStringer
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 637

PostPosted: Fri Jun 16, 2006 10:28 pm
Post subject: Re: Why accuracy problems with allied subjects? A rant...

Not to 'diss' anyone, but I only look forward to a model that fits good with minimum areas to fix or fill and just enjoy the build as is and know that it's only a model, not the real thing.

I've built (and still do) armor from 1/72, 1/48, 1/35 and the R/C 1/16 & 1/15th scale. I only want the kit to have the correct features for that year/model and not worry about measurements.

I guess I'm just easy to please and just enjoy a fun build!

My 2 cents! Laughing


Jeff
Back to top
View user's profile
T26E4
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Apr 14, 2006
Posts: 42

PostPosted: Sun Jun 18, 2006 1:24 am
Post subject: Re: Why accuracy problems with allied subjects? A rant...

Hi Roy: It's really that some of the companies making the Allied kits are the ones who full fidelity of the kit isn't so important. Regarding the M3 Lee, I know for certain that Academy had Ordnance Dept drawings yet they still shortcutted the bogies. I know the person who gave the drawings to Academy.

If a maker like Cromwell models or Accurate Armour can go out and measure a real subject and come out with a stunner, the only reason why we still get delivered some basic mistakes is that some companies just don't care enough. Will I get an Academy M3 Lee? Yes. But I'm sure tempted to reward Sid Arnold for his immaculate resin Lee and Grant. One is a craftsman, the other a toy company.
Back to top
View user's profile
Sabot
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 380
Location: Kentucky
PostPosted: Sun Jun 18, 2006 12:56 pm
Post subject: Re: Why accuracy problems with allied subjects? A rant...

I agree. For years, 1/72 scale modelers have wished for an updated Sherman tank line. For the majority of the time all we had was the old Esci M4A1(75), a decent kit but a rare variant. Then came the Revell M4A1(76). It was not a good kit but again, it was all we had.

Then Eduard/ExtraTech came out with an expensive line of M4A3, M4 and M4A3(105). They were universally panned by the review experts.

Now Dragon has a line coming out and the experts are picking at it too.

_________________
RobG
Back to top
View user's profile AIM Address
Russ_Buchan
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 26, 2006
Posts: 67

PostPosted: Tue Jun 20, 2006 4:18 am
Post subject: Re: Why accuracy problems with allied subjects? A rant...

Hi, Guys:

I am a mamber of CIA in good standing, and while I exult in the hobby's new (...wait, did I say "hobby'? Sorry, I meant "lifestyle").

...and while I exult in the availability of the lifestyle's new state-of-the-art kits and accessories, especially the PE technique's gift, I stand a bit more with Geoff and Jeff on the Acceptance-as-is versus Accuracy divide.

Long before Doug Kibbey performed his endearing feat of assembling all six Ontos rifles absolutely straight, I found Revell's M-4 Sherman kit in our local shop the day it came out. It had a neat Revell Factory 'diorama' display of folded 'pop-up' cardboard, of a ruined European town, with figures. (Tank commander, Infantry kneeling and firing; advancing at Port Arms; throwing a grenade; hunching over a submachine gun). We thought we were hot, just to daub Testor's Flesh on the faces and hands, and dip the boots in the new Pactra Flat Brown.

You'd have to ask Alfred Lai for the release date of the kit, but I was in Junior High, and now I'm 64 years old. While you're doing the math, I'll tell you that in today's terms that kit was what some Maintenaqnce NCO's might describe as a 'POS'. Inaccuracies? Let me count the ways... no, skip that, we'd be here the whole night. Dude, you had to like drill out your own gun-tubes! The sprockets didn't engage the tracks! Eeeew!

And yet, it was the start, for many of us, on that treacherous road to buying more and more models, no matter how crappy they were. Dontos must wince each time he sees an old Renwal Ontos, but back in the (President Dwight D. Eisenhower) day, that was the only Ontos you were going to get, so you just shook it off and get out the Revell Type 'S'.

The idea of scratchbuilding or kit-bashing must have occurred then to hundreds of bored young Curmudgeons In Armor-in-the-making (CIA) simultaneously. Nowadays, that's called a 'meme'.

Our earliest efforts are, I'm sure, best left interred along with their sins.
I urge any collectors of late '60s and early '70s Scale Modeller Magazines to disregard my pitiful M7 B Priest, Austin K2 Ambulance, Morris Quad, Desert Chevy, Krupp six-wheeler, that horrid 'Maultier' attempt, the Raupenschlepper with the daring Vac-U-Form wheels, and that awful, awful Revell Deuce-and-a-half-tired insult based on the (Nichimo?) Japanese Emperor's limousine that I chopped and tortured into a 6x4 Hitler's Mercedes (my first and only color plate in the mag). In the early 70s I sold a collector a Stuart based on the Revell High-speed Tractor kit, using one of Mr. Bradford's wonderful drawings, but taking many liberties with proportion and detail), and I still wake up in the night thinking he's out on the porch gunning for me because he knows the mantlet is not that exact shape, and the rivet pattern is all wrong, and because I charged him so flipping much.

I certainly know that these days, with so hugely much more research material and accessory products and add-on bits out there and available, that it is quite understandable for what we used to call "Nit-picking" of a model lacking in the most minor way to be a new, more critical, form of literal "Kit-bashing".

Accuracy, schmaccuracy. Back then, who knew?. In those benighted times, if you could convince an observer to even guess its name (or nationality) on the first try, you had a winner kitbash or scratchbuilt going for you. The Judges were just as dumb as you, but they happened to have more reference books than you, and had usually started the club.

Whenever possible, I took measurements and photos of my subjects as they were either offloaded or loaded on ships in Los Angles Harbor (Daimler Dingo, Austin K2 Ambulance, M7 B Priest, Sherman, etc.), but I just wanted the end result to suggest the subject I had in mind, with all its kinks and weatherings, and not necessarily to be a museum-quality model.

Had I jad the opportunity and means, I may well have striven to have built, or have had the acumen to have recognized, the most accurate replica in my power.

I also mean no disrespect to any self-confessed 'rivet-counters' out there. You are all a necessary check and balance on the system, and without your input we would soon plummet back to those early days of "Box Scale".

My (Aurora) $.98 Cents' worth,
Russ

I had fun, and I wish all of you the same fun
Back to top
View user's profile
Tanklord
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 817
Location: Louisiana
PostPosted: Tue Jun 20, 2006 8:12 am
Post subject: Re: Why accuracy problems with allied subjects? A rant...

Tell it all Brother, tell it all!

_________________
The only thing to do when a son-of-a-bitch looks
cross-eyed at you is to beat the hell out of him right
then and there
Back to top
View user's profile Yahoo Messenger
mike_Duplessis
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 236

PostPosted: Tue Jun 20, 2006 7:15 pm
Post subject: Re: Why accuracy problems with allied subjects? A rant...

I recall being all thrilled about puchasing one of those first high-tech super-accurate (and expensive) kits awhile ago. It turned out to be one of the dullest modelling projects I've ever undertaken. Where's thrill of the adventure if its totally accurate right out of the box?
Back to top
View user's profile
geoffsteer
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 114

PostPosted: Tue Jun 20, 2006 9:58 pm
Post subject: Re: Why accuracy problems with allied subjects? A rant...

Hi Guys-
I always enjoy Russ' posts, thanks for taking the time Russ, always a pleasure!
I just want to clarify one point, I am most definitley NOT a rivet counter! As far as I am concerned, if you cannot detect any problems using the Mk-I eyeball, look no further as nothing else truelly matters! My original post was asking nothing more than it appeared to be, why do all recent releases of allied subjects have visible problems?
Now that we have that disposed of, I will also indulge in a little trip down memory lane. I spent many a happy Saturday at the Toronto reference library going through and sometimes photocopying articles from old issues of Military Modelling. Lots of wonderfull stuff was to be found in the pre-1980 issues (I say pre-1980 as I have an almost complete post 1980 collection). One article I remember was one that announced with greate joy and fanfare Tamiya's release of their Centurion. The article talked about how great it was to, at last, have this famous tank kitted. Very conspicuous by its absence was any mention of accuracy or lack thereof, we were all, including the reviewer obviously, just very happy to have a kit available. Back in the seventies, there was so little to choose from that, if anything new was released, we were just happy to have it! I really dont remember any reviews knocking kits over their accuracy back then, if it came out, that was all that was asked for!
I hope I qualify as a member of the CIA, not least because at 49 I can claim to have been a modeller for over 40 years. I can remember the good times and bad like the late eighties when it looked like you either had to learn to cope with resin or you simply had nothing new to look forward to or work with! Yep, resin was the only way to go and I think we all owe the older resin companies a vote of thanks as I believe it was they who inspired the boom in injection kits that came later. I believe this as I think alot of injection companies saw the prices modellers were willing to pay for a resin kit and realised from that that there was still an un-tapped market out there just waiting for their releases.
Whew! I had no intention of droning on this long when I started!
Hope you all managed to stick with me 'till the end.
Bye for now-
Geoff Steer [;-{/)
Back to top
View user's profile
JeffStringer
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 637

PostPosted: Wed Jun 21, 2006 1:03 am
Post subject: Re: Why accuracy problems with allied subjects? A rant...

Ooops! I never meant to imply anyone was a 'rivet counter'! Laughing Guess the old Opinion creeps out when it's not called for! Wink


Jeff
Back to top
View user's profile
piney
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 2330
Location: Republic of Southern New Jersey
PostPosted: Wed Jun 21, 2006 3:37 am
Post subject: Re: Why accuracy problems with allied subjects? A rant...

I too am a CIA ( a spritely 53) and have modelled since way back(around 1959) . Today's kits are amazing with all their bells and whistles and are truly outstanding, but I don't think they are as much "fun" to model. Buy enough aftermarkets parts and the job is done. Back when the kits were more basic it was a lot of fun trying to see what you could transform into a part for your tank. I remember using the foil from wine bottles to get a realistic looking flag to drape over a panzer IV and having a scrap parts box the size of a microwave oven. I was not even above using wingy thing kit parts to get a better looking tank. Just seemed to be more of a challenge back then. my elderly 2 cents worth Smile

Jeff Lewis
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail
JimWeb
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 1439
Location: The back of beyond
PostPosted: Wed Jun 21, 2006 7:12 am
Post subject: Re: Why accuracy problems with allied subjects? A rant...

- geoffsteer
I just want to clarify one point, I am most definitley NOT a rivet counter!


oh dear first sign of a rivet-counter - denial Wink

Cool

_________________
TTFN
Jim

If your not a member of JED then your
not serious about anything military..

***********************
www.jedsite.info
JED Military Equipment
***********************
Back to top
View user's profile Visit poster's website ICQ Number
JeffStringer
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 637

PostPosted: Wed Jun 21, 2006 9:58 am
Post subject: Re: Why accuracy problems with allied subjects? A rant...

Laughing
Back to top
View user's profile
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic    Reply to topic    Printer Friendly Page    Forum Index ›  AFV News Discussion Board
Page 1 of 1
All times are GMT - 6 Hours



Jump to:  


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You cannot attach files in this forum
You cannot download files in this forum