±Recent Visitors

Recent Visitors to Com-Central!

±User Info-big


Welcome Anonymous

Nickname
Password

Membership:
Latest: cgsimpson
New Today: 0
New Yesterday: 0
Overall: 6645

People Online:
Members: 0
Visitors: 245
Total: 245
Who Is Where:
 Visitors:
01: Community Forums
02: Community Forums
03: News
04: Community Forums
05: CPGlang
06: Home
07: Community Forums
08: Home
09: Photo Gallery
10: Community Forums
11: Community Forums
12: Community Forums
13: Photo Gallery
14: Community Forums
15: Community Forums
16: Community Forums
17: Home
18: Community Forums
19: Community Forums
20: Home
21: Home
22: Community Forums
23: Community Forums
24: Home
25: Community Forums
26: Home
27: Community Forums
28: Community Forums
29: Member Screenshots
30: Community Forums
31: CPGlang
32: CPGlang
33: Photo Gallery
34: Home
35: News
36: Community Forums
37: Community Forums
38: Home
39: Home
40: Home
41: CPGlang
42: CPGlang
43: Community Forums
44: Photo Gallery
45: Home
46: Home
47: CPGlang
48: Home
49: Home
50: Downloads
51: Home
52: Community Forums
53: Home
54: Home
55: Community Forums
56: CPGlang
57: CPGlang
58: Statistics
59: CPGlang
60: Community Forums
61: Community Forums
62: Home
63: Community Forums
64: Community Forums
65: Home
66: Community Forums
67: Home
68: Home
69: News Archive
70: Home
71: Home
72: Home
73: Community Forums
74: Home
75: Home
76: Home
77: Home
78: CPGlang
79: Community Forums
80: Home
81: Community Forums
82: Community Forums
83: Community Forums
84: Community Forums
85: Community Forums
86: Community Forums
87: Community Forums
88: Home
89: Downloads
90: Home
91: Community Forums
92: Downloads
93: Home
94: Community Forums
95: Community Forums
96: Home
97: Community Forums
98: Photo Gallery
99: Community Forums
100: Community Forums
101: Home
102: CPGlang
103: Community Forums
104: Home
105: Home
106: Home
107: Downloads
108: Community Forums
109: Downloads
110: Community Forums
111: Home
112: Home
113: Community Forums
114: Photo Gallery
115: Community Forums
116: Community Forums
117: Home
118: Community Forums
119: Community Forums
120: CPGlang
121: Home
122: Home
123: Photo Gallery
124: Community Forums
125: Community Forums
126: Community Forums
127: Home
128: Home
129: Home
130: Photo Gallery
131: Home
132: Photo Gallery
133: Photo Gallery
134: Home
135: Home
136: Community Forums
137: Home
138: Community Forums
139: Home
140: Home
141: Photo Gallery
142: Home
143: Home
144: Home
145: Home
146: Home
147: Home
148: Community Forums
149: CPGlang
150: Home
151: Photo Gallery
152: Home
153: Downloads
154: Community Forums
155: CPGlang
156: Home
157: Community Forums
158: CPGlang
159: Community Forums
160: Home
161: CPGlang
162: CPGlang
163: Community Forums
164: Home
165: Community Forums
166: CPGlang
167: CPGlang
168: Home
169: Community Forums
170: News Archive
171: Photo Gallery
172: Home
173: Home
174: CPGlang
175: Downloads
176: CPGlang
177: Home
178: Downloads
179: Community Forums
180: Community Forums
181: Home
182: Home
183: Community Forums
184: Downloads
185: Home
186: Community Forums
187: Community Forums
188: Home
189: Home
190: Home
191: Home
192: Home
193: CPGlang
194: Community Forums
195: Community Forums
196: Home
197: Community Forums
198: Home
199: CPGlang
200: Community Forums
201: Community Forums
202: Home
203: Community Forums
204: Community Forums
205: Home
206: CPGlang
207: Home
208: Home
209: Your Account
210: Downloads
211: Community Forums
212: Photo Gallery
213: Home
214: Home
215: CPGlang
216: Home
217: Home
218: Treasury
219: Home
220: Home
221: Home
222: Home
223: CPGlang
224: Home
225: Downloads
226: Downloads
227: Photo Gallery
228: Community Forums
229: Community Forums
230: Home
231: Home
232: Photo Gallery
233: Home
234: Downloads
235: CPGlang
236: Photo Gallery
237: Home
238: Home
239: Home
240: Photo Gallery
241: Community Forums
242: Community Forums
243: Home
244: CPGlang
245: Downloads

Staff Online:

No staff members are online!
Armor in Strange Lands (Which Do You Know of?)
The AFV ASSOCIATION was formed in 1964 to support the thoughts and research of all those interested in Armored Fighting Vehicles and related topics, such as AFV drawings. The emphasis has always been on sharing information and communicating with other members of similar interests; e.g. German armor, Japanese AFVs, or whatever.
Post new topic    Reply to topic    Printer Friendly Page     Forum Index ›  AFV News Discussion Board

View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
Blackjack
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 61

PostPosted: Tue Jan 06, 2009 1:12 am
Post subject: Armor in Strange Lands (Which Do You Know of?)

In one of the Osprey Elite books on the Warsaw Pact, it states that the East German NVA had a unit outfitted with M113s and an M47 or two to look like West German vehciles (smoke dischargers, etc) that were obtained from Vietnam. This unit was to wreck havoc if East and West were to ever come to blows, which thankfully they never did. They would have made things confusing for a while, anyhow...

I heard a rumor many moons ago that there was a Chieftan in Poland that was used for evaluation and training, obtained from Iran, but I haven't heard anything since. An M107 was a gift from Vietnam for aid given during the war, a war trophy that can be seen in Warsaw today, so not the same as the Chieftan.

The US holdings are pretty well known, coming from Egypt and Israel before the Wall came down. Supposedly, a few Scuds were aquired after the Wall came down and their crews in cooperation with the US Military demonstrated what operating procedures were as a number were fred off in Nevada and potential countermeasures developed.

The USSR got an M-60 with blazer armour from Syria which was reverse engineered and lessons passed on to their own armor. What others are there that may be known of? I think its odd after all this time that the Chieftan is still a tightly held secret, if it was ever in Polish hands at all. There have to be other unique vehicles out there in strange lands with unique stories behind them....
Back to top
View user's profile
JG300-Ascout
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 05, 2005
Posts: 6257
Location: Cyberspace
PostPosted: Tue Jan 06, 2009 2:06 am
Post subject: Re: Armor in Strange Lands (Which Do You Know of?)

- Blackjack
An M107 was a gift from Vietnam for aid given during the war, a war trophy that can be seen in Warsaw today, so not the same as the Chieftan.


It was still there in the summer of '07 at the Polish Army Museum.

_________________
"All facts go to clearly prove that Shades is a thrice-cursed traitor & mentally deranged person steeped in inveterate enmity toward mankind"
Back to top
View user's profile Photo Gallery
Maple_Leaf_Eh
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 517

PostPosted: Tue Jan 06, 2009 3:15 am
Post subject: Re: Armor in Strange Lands (Which Do You Know of?)

If you remove the option of captured and reused by the second owner, there are a lot fewer possibilities. Sales are an obvious source of unusual uses.

There are stories of an Italian Leopard I winding up in the USSR for observations.

How about some of the Israeli Shermans in Chile - third or fourthhand?
Back to top
View user's profile
TrevorLarkum
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Sep 16, 2007
Posts: 1596
Location: Northampton, England
PostPosted: Tue Jan 06, 2009 2:39 pm
Post subject: Re: Armor in Strange Lands (Which Do You Know of?)

I'm not sure I'm convinced that the NVA were intending those vehicles for subterfuge, I would have thought more likely as OPFOR vehicles.

As JG300-Ascout says the M107 is in Warsaw, along with a Leopard - you can see them here in a private (unfinished) part of my site:

www.preservedtanks.com...0&Select=4

I'm also not convinced the USSR has an M60 with Blazer, my guess is it's been confused with their M60, and their M48 with Blazer. They can be seen in my public Kubinka section (click on Foreign Vehicles) - along with a Chieftain and some other interesting stuff:

www.preservedtanks.com...4&Max=2146

_________________
Trevor

Dr Trevor Larkum
Preserved Tanks: PreservedTanks.com
Armour Archive: ArmourArchive.co.uk
EVs
Back to top
View user's profile Visit poster's website
MarkHolloway
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Apr 08, 2006
Posts: 2054
Location: Beatty, Nevada
PostPosted: Tue Jan 06, 2009 3:34 pm
Post subject: Re: Armor in Strange Lands (Which Do You Know of?)

About 5 years ago a SCUD was tested at White Sands Missile Range.

_________________
"TUMBLEWEED"
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail Photo Gallery
Joe_D
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 29, 2006
Posts: 2066
Location: Razorback Country
PostPosted: Tue Jan 06, 2009 3:41 pm
Post subject: Re: Armor in Strange Lands (Which Do You Know of?)

When I was stationed at Fort Irwin I heard of a similar OPFOR unit to ours run by the Soviet Army somewhere in the Ukraine.

They were supposedly outfitted with captured equipment, although the scale and instrumentation was no where near as in depth as what we were doing. Never heard any more since then.

Joe D
Back to top
View user's profile Photo Gallery
Taranov
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jul 04, 2006
Posts: 344
Location: Moscow, Russia
PostPosted: Tue Jan 06, 2009 3:54 pm
Post subject: Re: Armor in Strange Lands (Which Do You Know of?)

Correction:
M48A5 with Blazer armor, trophy on 1982 conflict, if we are talk about Kubinka tank. Chieftain Mk.5 and Scorpion - gift from Saddam, ex-iranian tanks.
Back to top
View user's profile
Dontos
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 3436
Location: Vine Grove, KY
PostPosted: Tue Jan 06, 2009 4:53 pm
Post subject: Re: Armor in Strange Lands (Which Do You Know of?)

In the late 70's there was an operational 'Hind D' at Ft Bliss, for a brief period of time. It was kept 'under wraps' but was operational and used on occasion. I happened to see it a couple times as it flew around the desert.

I did hear it was 'on loan' from Ft Hunter-Ligget in California, but not sure of that 'rumor'.

Don
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail Visit poster's website AIM Address Yahoo Messenger Photo Gallery
Neil_Baumgardner
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 3942
Location: Arlington, VA
PostPosted: Tue Jan 06, 2009 4:58 pm
Post subject: Re: Armor in Strange Lands (Which Do You Know of?)

JRTC at Fort Polk has Mi-24 Hinds, used to pride themselves on having the best operational availability of any Hind unit in the world LOL... I was promised a ride (presumably in the cramped assault compartment) when I visited as a reporter some years ago, but we ended up on a Black Hawk instead Sad

Neil
Back to top
View user's profile
MarkHolloway
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Apr 08, 2006
Posts: 2054
Location: Beatty, Nevada
PostPosted: Tue Jan 06, 2009 7:21 pm
Post subject: Re: Armor in Strange Lands (Which Do You Know of?)

This is at Fort Bliss. I talked to the US Army pilot and he said they were training foreign pilots.

_________________
"TUMBLEWEED"
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail Photo Gallery
TrevorLarkum
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Sep 16, 2007
Posts: 1596
Location: Northampton, England
PostPosted: Wed Jan 07, 2009 3:03 pm
Post subject: Re: Armor in Strange Lands (Which Do You Know of?)

- TrevorLarkum
As JG300-Ascout says the M107 is in Warsaw, along with a Leopard - you can see them here in a private (unfinished) part of my site:

www.preservedtanks.com...p;Select=4

I'm also not convinced the USSR has an M60 with Blazer, my guess is it's been confused with their M60, and their M48 with Blazer. They can be seen in my public Kubinka section (click on Foreign Vehicles) - along with a Chieftain and some other interesting stuff:

www.preservedtanks.com...p;Max=2146


Apologies to anyone who clicked on these and got a 'Service Unavailable' message, as I did earlier today. It's now fixed and these links are working again.

As Taranov said, the M48 with the Blazer is the M48A5, #124 (I should have been more specific as there's also an M48A3 in the collection, #123):

www.preservedtanks.com...;Select=15

_________________
Trevor

Dr Trevor Larkum
Preserved Tanks: PreservedTanks.com
Armour Archive: ArmourArchive.co.uk
EVs
Back to top
View user's profile Visit poster's website
Joe_D
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 29, 2006
Posts: 2066
Location: Razorback Country
PostPosted: Wed Jan 07, 2009 3:29 pm
Post subject: Re: Armor in Strange Lands (Which Do You Know of?)

Mark,

That is most likely an Afghan Pilot in there being trained. Met a bunch of them in 2006 at the CIF facility.

Joe D
Back to top
View user's profile Photo Gallery
MarkHolloway
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Apr 08, 2006
Posts: 2054
Location: Beatty, Nevada
PostPosted: Wed Jan 07, 2009 3:41 pm
Post subject: Re: Armor in Strange Lands (Which Do You Know of?)

- Joe_D
Mark,

That is most likely an Afghan Pilot in there being trained. Met a bunch of them in 2006 at the CIF facility.

Joe D


When I worked as a fuel man at White Sands they brought one of these out one day and I refueled it. It had the American crew but they were testing American-made machine gun mounts in it. I think that had the SAW and M240.

_________________
"TUMBLEWEED"
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail Photo Gallery
tanker2010
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Aug 20, 2006
Posts: 264
Location: Kansas City, Mo.
PostPosted: Thu Jan 08, 2009 12:16 am
Post subject: Re: Armor in Strange Lands (Which Do You Know of?)

- Neil_Baumgardner
JRTC at Fort Polk has Mi-24 Hinds, used to pride themselves on having the best operational availability of any Hind unit in the world


Yeah, if you listen to the far right wing wackos on shortwave radio or any of their crazy rags, that's proof we have Russian and U.N. bases in the U.S. ready to take over for the New World Order. One of the better laughs I got, was a pic of Canadian Cougars on rail cars going to NTC. They were still painted white, having just come back from Bosnia, according to the wackos this was more proof of N.W.O. forces comming into the U.S..
Back to top
View user's profile Photo Gallery
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic    Reply to topic    Printer Friendly Page    Forum Index ›  AFV News Discussion Board
Page 1 of 1
All times are GMT - 6 Hours



Jump to:  


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You cannot attach files in this forum
You cannot download files in this forum