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- the_shadock

no, everything was quite easy. I arrived at Cecchignola on Saturday morning at 9 AM, without having contacted anybody before. I said that I wanted to visit the museum, and was able to see everything. However, I only concentrated on Shermans because I knew that you already took good pictures of the other tanks, and because there were some photos of Sherman parts that I wanted to take for "Sherman minutia" website.

Maybe the current commander changed something (commanders rotate every two years). Have you checked inside their hangars? Most AFVs are outdoor, but many amazing softskins are inside

- the_shadock

Massimo,
The only thing is that, if you come with your car, you have to learn to drive like Italian people, or you are dead

If you managed to survive Rome's traffic, you should be proud

Massimo

Massimo,

no, everything was quite easy. I arrived at Cecchignola on Saturday morning at 9 AM, without having contacted anybody before. I said that I wanted to visit the museum, and was able to see everything. However, I only concentrated on Shermans because I knew that you already took good pictures of the other tanks, and because there were some photos of Sherman parts that I wanted to take for "Sherman minutia" website. The guys there speak a bit english, not everybody but some guys. The only thing is that one of the guys from the museum didn't understand why it took me so long to see only 4 Shermans...

For the museum in Bologna, I arrived on Friday at noon, and I asked for a visit but I had to wait until 3 PM for a guided tour. I insisted and said that I only wanted to see the Sherman, so I was able to enter and see it without having to wait. I think that I was very lucky for this trip...
The only thing is that I didn't visit the Museo dei Carristi, but that doesn't matter.

Finally, I can say that people were mostly kind and helpful in Italy, in Ortona I was not able to find the Sherman, so I asked a bus driver and he drew me a litlle map to help me, that was really kind.

The only thing is that, if you come with your car, you have to learn to drive like Italian people, or you are dead

And finally I have spent 5 days sleeping in the car and didn't go at the hotel at all..

P-O

Glad to hear you had a great time at Vigna di Valle.
Was it problematic to get permissions at Cecchigola? Was the crew over there able to speak english? Have you visited only the Shermans or all the collection (there are many hangars)

Massimo

Hello guys,

here is a quick report of what I saw in Switzerland and Italy. Sorry guys, I've seen a lot of artillery pieces and airplanes, but didn't take pictures because I lacked time and place on the memory card.. I concentrated mainly on Sherman tanks.

Thun swiss tank museum :
-M4A4 Sherman (ex-British, unmodified since 1944 I would say) SN 17299
-M7 Priest, has number 1427 stamped on the rear tow lug (can clearly be seen on a photo)
-M31 TRV, has SN 68 stamped on front and rear tow lugs

-Sexton SPG in tempio della fraternita, Cella, no stamped number visible anywhere, has an Italian howitzer mounted on.

-M4(75) in Bologna, this is a Chrysler made ex-105mm tank with SN 58238, has M4-5-751 stamped on the edge of the front glacis, has a D78461 high bustle turret with SN 3830 (the turret may come from a Fisher M4A3(75)W).

-have seen a StuG III Ausf. G in Castiglion Fiorentino

-From Museo Cecchigola in Rome :
-M4A1(76) with side number 4705 and turret number 831
-M36 Jackson with side number A525, the rear tow lugs were not accessible because of the exhaust deflectors
-M32B1 (based on M4A1 with small hatches), has a number stamped on rear tow lug, which is 1839 (it is unusual because there is no SN stamped on M4A1 rear tow lugs usually).
-M7 Priest, SN 179 on rear tow lug
-Sexton SPG with number 2111 stamped on the back plate
-M74 TRV SN 64110 (Chrysler)

Have seen an M4A4 Dozer in a military range near the Cecchignola museum, but access forbidden. I took 2 photos from maybe 150 meters away, they ddo 't show a lot of things. There was also a Valentine bridgelayer and an AB 41.

Have seen an M4A4 firefly with all the British fittings, but access forbidden too. I have good photos of it however, which prove this is a good Firefly with all modifications.

I had a great time visiting the Vigna di Valle airplane museum, this is really a must-see. I didn't take any picture however, thinking that some other people have taken better ones with a better equipment.

Piana Dell Orme museum :
-Sexton SPG with number 1126 stamped on the back plate
-M4A1 DD, no number visible anywhere. Has small hatches and NO cast-in appliqué on hull sides
-M4A2 with 76mm turret, as discussed before
-M4A4 hull with Firefly turret (has to verify that the hull is from a Firefly or not). No visible SN because the tow lugs were too badly damaged
-M4(75) SN 58238 (Chrysler, ex- 105mm tank), with edge number M4-105-918 (the 8 is uncertain). Has a D50878 turret with 75mm gun, no visible SN for that turret
-They have 7 or 8 M8 Greyhound and a fabulous collection of army Jeeps, trucks of all sorts. This is also a must-see, they have a collection as great as Overloon, I would say.

-Monte Lungo memorial :
-M4(75), Chrysler ex 105mm tank, has a 105mm turret, only the gun and mount were replaced with 75mm, has SN 58433 and "edge number" M4-5-924
-M10 Tank Destroyer, this is Fisher made M4A2 transformed to get a radial engine, so has back engine doors and modified engine deck plates. Has SN 6143 stamped inside the manufacturer's plate frame.
-M4 Firefly turret

-M36 Jackson at Arpaise, has SN 8824 stamped inside the manufacturer's plate frame. Forgot to check the side number and rear tow lugs

-M36 Jackson at Gambatesa, has SN 108 on rear tow lug and side number A458. Was not repainted since 1952, so there are still some original stencil / shipping markings. Have photoe'd as many of them as possible.

-M4 "Cookie" at Ortona, has SN 24871

-M4A2 at Chieti, has SN 8514 and side number 1405.

Now I have to sort all this out, have taken 1800 pictures !!

P-O

We had a great time, I will report in more details as soon as I will catch some backlog

Massimo

Although we haven't got any information about unpatiently awaited LT-P in Prague or in Lesany and were not allowed to take pole shots by an eager guard lady screamin' wildly "SE STAAATIIIVEM NEEEE..SMIII..TEEE", I can say I had perfect three days (Kbely/Lesany/Lesany) with Massimo.
On Wednesday we met Patrik accompanied by his son Patrik (10 y/o, quite a patient fine boy) there and on Thursday my younger son Honza (16 y/o) joined us there. So we can say there were even two "Three Amigos" meetings in Lesany this week.
I would say we had a lot of fun with Massimo and a lot of topics for discussion, both related and not related to armour and military/militarised vehicles... I believe he made lots and lots of lots of pictures in both museums and thank to Honza we have got some pics which can not be probably made by usual visitors... It could be another story to be told, but not publicly.
I left Massimo in the train from Benesov to Prague on his own and safely went home by car in the late afternoon.
I hope you can expect more detailed information from Massimo in a couple of days.

Garry,

as I am going to Rome in late August I will be able to take the picture that the museum requires. But it will probably be some modern cars and items on the photo.

Pierre-Olivier

Instead of creating a new topic, I thought it best to put this request here. I need photos taken that may be used in the Patton Museum. We will be doing 1:1 scale dioramas using our remaining vehicles. One diorama depicts the 701TD moving through Rome. Here is a link of the war photo.

armorfortheages.com/RomePhoto.htm

The museum director wants to recreate this scene using our M10. We need a present day color photo taken from this angle, but a bit further back. Here is a GoogleMap street view about where we would like the photo taken.

maps.google.com/maps?h...2,,0,-5.62

It would be preferable to take it in the morning on a bright day the same as the original war photo, but since beggars can't be choosey, we will take anything. If it is not too much trouble, maybe several photos taken at slightly different angles. I'll see to it that the photographer gets credit in the exhibit.

If anyone can help us out, please send me an e-mail to gredmon @ fewpb.net

Thanks.
Garry

We will find another opportunity, just a matter of time.

As for me, I will try to finish off the tank-spotting season by visiting Munster in October, but I am not sure yet.

Massimo

Massimo,

I'm glad that you are able to meet forums members for real.

Sorry to say, but I'll do the trip to Rome and Italy alone in early September. The reason is that I'm absolutely not sure to be able to do this trip later this year... I'm sure we will meet in another place soon.

P-O

Seems like there will soon be another "Three Amigos" meeting. This time it will be in Lesany, with me, Palic and Patrik.
It's going to be cool

Massimo

I am just back from Full, I had a great time with Wim in Full, we visited both the Military Museum and the Fortress.
Wim entered the Centurion simulator to get back to his old job as loader in the Dutch Army

The highlight of the day happened while we were inside the new hangar and we heard the sound of an aircraft outside, well, Wim identified it as a Ju-52 only by the sound, and he was right!
It was one of the Junkers based in Dubendorf who turned around just above our heads:
www.airforcecenter.ch/....php?id=25

Massimo

It's time to meet another dutch friend. Me and Wim will be in Full this Saturday

Massimo

- the_shadock

I'll know it with certainty in mid-september, not before.

That's most likely would be too late for me... I have to plan in advance.

Massimo

- Massimo_Foti

That's too early for me. I took holidays in mid August already. I am afraid I wouldn't be possible for me in September... How about early October?

Massimo

well, I'm not sure to be able to take holidays in early October, I really don't know. Maybe it will be easy to get them, maybe not. I'll know it with certainty in mid-september, not before.

P-O