±Recent Visitors

Recent Visitors to Com-Central!

±User Info-big


Welcome Anonymous

Nickname
Password

Membership:
Latest: HighestAce
New Today: 0
New Yesterday: 0
Overall: 6648

People Online:
Members: 0
Visitors: 290
Total: 290
Who Is Where:
 Visitors:
01: Community Forums
02: Home
03: Member Screenshots
04: Community Forums
05: Member Screenshots
06: Member Screenshots
07: Community Forums
08: Community Forums
09: Home
10: Community Forums
11: Community Forums
12: Home
13: Community Forums
14: Home
15: Community Forums
16: Community Forums
17: Member Screenshots
18: Community Forums
19: Home
20: News
21: Community Forums
22: Home
23: Community Forums
24: Home
25: Community Forums
26: Downloads
27: Home
28: Home
29: Community Forums
30: Photo Gallery
31: Home
32: Community Forums
33: Home
34: Member Screenshots
35: Member Screenshots
36: Home
37: Photo Gallery
38: Community Forums
39: Your Account
40: Community Forums
41: Your Account
42: Member Screenshots
43: Downloads
44: Your Account
45: News
46: Community Forums
47: Member Screenshots
48: Home
49: Community Forums
50: Home
51: Photo Gallery
52: Home
53: Community Forums
54: Your Account
55: Community Forums
56: Community Forums
57: Community Forums
58: Home
59: Community Forums
60: Community Forums
61: Photo Gallery
62: Member Screenshots
63: Member Screenshots
64: Photo Gallery
65: Community Forums
66: Member Screenshots
67: Home
68: Downloads
69: Member Screenshots
70: Member Screenshots
71: Member Screenshots
72: Photo Gallery
73: Your Account
74: Community Forums
75: News Archive
76: Community Forums
77: Home
78: Member Screenshots
79: Community Forums
80: Your Account
81: Member Screenshots
82: Home
83: Community Forums
84: Community Forums
85: Home
86: Member Screenshots
87: Community Forums
88: Community Forums
89: Community Forums
90: Home
91: News
92: Community Forums
93: Tell a Friend
94: Community Forums
95: Home
96: Home
97: Home
98: Community Forums
99: Community Forums
100: Photo Gallery
101: Community Forums
102: Home
103: Community Forums
104: Home
105: Community Forums
106: Home
107: Community Forums
108: Photo Gallery
109: News Archive
110: Member Screenshots
111: Community Forums
112: Community Forums
113: Home
114: Community Forums
115: Downloads
116: Community Forums
117: Home
118: Home
119: Member Screenshots
120: Home
121: Home
122: Member Screenshots
123: News Archive
124: Downloads
125: Downloads
126: Home
127: Home
128: Member Screenshots
129: Home
130: Downloads
131: Your Account
132: Community Forums
133: Community Forums
134: Community Forums
135: Home
136: Community Forums
137: Member Screenshots
138: Community Forums
139: Home
140: Home
141: Community Forums
142: Community Forums
143: Home
144: Downloads
145: Home
146: Community Forums
147: Community Forums
148: Photo Gallery
149: Member Screenshots
150: Home
151: Community Forums
152: Home
153: Community Forums
154: Home
155: News Archive
156: Downloads
157: Community Forums
158: Community Forums
159: Home
160: Community Forums
161: Community Forums
162: Community Forums
163: Member Screenshots
164: Member Screenshots
165: Contact
166: Home
167: Community Forums
168: Community Forums
169: Home
170: Community Forums
171: Member Screenshots
172: Treasury
173: Member Screenshots
174: Community Forums
175: Home
176: Community Forums
177: Community Forums
178: Community Forums
179: Community Forums
180: Photo Gallery
181: Downloads
182: Contact
183: Home
184: Community Forums
185: Member Screenshots
186: LinkToUs
187: Community Forums
188: Community Forums
189: Community Forums
190: Community Forums
191: Community Forums
192: Home
193: Home
194: Home
195: News
196: Photo Gallery
197: Your Account
198: Community Forums
199: Photo Gallery
200: Home
201: Community Forums
202: Home
203: Member Screenshots
204: Community Forums
205: Treasury
206: Home
207: News
208: Community Forums
209: News
210: Community Forums
211: Photo Gallery
212: Home
213: Community Forums
214: Home
215: Downloads
216: Community Forums
217: Community Forums
218: Member Screenshots
219: News Archive
220: Community Forums
221: Member Screenshots
222: Downloads
223: Downloads
224: Community Forums
225: Photo Gallery
226: Community Forums
227: Home
228: Community Forums
229: Community Forums
230: Community Forums
231: News Archive
232: Community Forums
233: Community Forums
234: Member Screenshots
235: Home
236: Community Forums
237: Statistics
238: Community Forums
239: Community Forums
240: Home
241: Downloads
242: Home
243: Community Forums
244: Community Forums
245: Home
246: Photo Gallery
247: Community Forums
248: Community Forums
249: Community Forums
250: Community Forums
251: Community Forums
252: Home
253: Home
254: Downloads
255: Community Forums
256: Photo Gallery
257: Community Forums
258: News Archive
259: Home
260: Member Screenshots
261: Home
262: Downloads
263: Downloads
264: Community Forums
265: Home
266: Community Forums
267: Home
268: Downloads
269: Community Forums
270: Home
271: Home
272: Home
273: Community Forums
274: Downloads
275: Your Account
276: Community Forums
277: Photo Gallery
278: Home
279: Photo Gallery
280: Downloads
281: Home
282: Community Forums
283: Community Forums
284: News Archive
285: Member Screenshots
286: Downloads
287: Community Forums
288: Community Forums
289: Home
290: Community Forums

Staff Online:

No staff members are online!
Weapons Cache in Iraq...
The AFV ASSOCIATION was formed in 1964 to support the thoughts and research of all those interested in Armored Fighting Vehicles and related topics, such as AFV drawings. The emphasis has always been on sharing information and communicating with other members of similar interests; e.g. German armor, Japanese AFVs, or whatever.
Post new topic    Reply to topic    Printer Friendly Page     Forum Index ›  AFV News Discussion Board

View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
SFC_Jeff_Button
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 1311
Location: Ft Hood, TX
PostPosted: Wed Jan 25, 2006 5:59 pm
Post subject: Weapons Cache in Iraq...

[img][/img]
I was told this is very common of the type of weapons caches found in Iraq. 1/11th ACR soldiers found this one. Once found, they were guarded until disposed of by EOD or Engineers after being inventoried. Inventory was done not just for shear number accountability, but to see who was supplying the weapons and/or where they came from. I was shown numerous pictures of all sorts of caches sites found, they're everywhere.

_________________
SFC Jeff Button "High Angle Hell"
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail Photo Gallery
Roy_A_Lingle
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 1997
Location: El Paso & Ft Bliss, Texas
PostPosted: Thu Jan 26, 2006 7:57 am
Post subject: Re: Weapons Cache in Iraq...

Hi Folks!

That is the price we are paying today for not putting a larger number of troops and units in there at the start. There should have been a list of ammo dumps with units tasked to find them and secure them so no one could haul anything away for use later. Next problem should have been covering the borders and try to prevent anyone from slipping more items and people into the area.

The amount of ammo I have heard that EOD units have destoryed already is unreal.

My 2 cents,
Sgt, Scouts Out!
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail
SFC_Jeff_Button
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 1311
Location: Ft Hood, TX
PostPosted: Thu Jan 26, 2006 7:06 pm
Post subject: Re: Weapons Cache in Iraq...

The "civilians" sitting on the dirt mound beside the Hummer are actually "zip-tied" and are awaiting questioning. They lived on the property where the cache was found. I don't know the results of the questioning.

_________________
SFC Jeff Button "High Angle Hell"
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail Photo Gallery
C_Sherman
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 590

PostPosted: Fri Jan 27, 2006 3:52 am
Post subject: Re: Weapons Cache in Iraq...

Hi all,

Roy, the problem with your premise is that Saddam had emptied his armories and bunkers well before we invaded. Most of the enormous amount of munitions on the ground were dispersed and hidden before we got there. Even with our entire Army, we wouldn't have had enough people to secure every weapons dump and cache in Iraq, even if we had known where all of them were.

Our Civil Affairs teams were regularly directed to ammo dumps and caches in the desert, by locals. Some of these were truly huge, covering many acres with buried stashes of shells and ammunition. They would do a preliminary assessment, and notify the EOD guys. There was no way to secure the sites, so they would just leave and hope that everything would stay where it was. Even at guarded sites, we often discovered 'back entrances' with folks stealing anything they could carry. Most of them wanted it for the scrap metal, but it's not hard to imagine that some of them ended up being used against us.

On top of the larger dumps, there are literally tens of thousands of smaller backyard-type caches. Often the residents don't want them, and will point them out as soon as they think they safely can. Some of the caches do belong to terrorists, though.

In some ways, the poor storage conditions work in our favor. RPG propellant and warheads don't work well after a year or more buried in a back yard. As time goes on, the lack of maintenance and controlled storage are degrading any MANPADS still floating around out there, making our fliers safer. Unfortunately, most sorts of artillery shells seem to handle the storage conditions pretty well.

Oh, and EOD is destroying literally tons of stuff out of those dumps every day. They have a lot of guys working it, and still estimated years of 7-day-a-week work to destroy even what we already know about.

C
Back to top
View user's profile Photo Gallery
SFC_Jeff_Button
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 1311
Location: Ft Hood, TX
PostPosted: Fri Jan 27, 2006 4:15 am
Post subject: Re: Weapons Cache in Iraq...

C,
Sounds like you are still on duty, in the reserves, or just got out. There ARE huge amounts of munitions in caches everywhere. I was shown more pictures of cache sites than you can imagine. I know a fellow with literaly, a thousand or so pictures of various caches sites, sites being blown, raids, etc... amazing stuff.

_________________
SFC Jeff Button "High Angle Hell"
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail Photo Gallery
Roy_A_Lingle
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 1997
Location: El Paso & Ft Bliss, Texas
PostPosted: Fri Jan 27, 2006 8:01 am
Post subject: Re: Weapons Cache in Iraq...

Hi Chuck! Hi Folks!

"Saddam had emptied his armories and bunkers well before we invaded."

If anyone at Cen-Com G2 had been paying attention, a lot of that action would have been tracked and we would have some idea where the larger caches were at.

"Most of the enormous amount of munitions on the ground were dispersed and hidden before we got there."

I have read a number of articles that have reported units passing through massive ammo bunker complexs packed with ammo. The units didn't have the mission of guarding those complexes until some else could replace them. Days and weeks later when those dumps where check again, a lot of the munitions were gone.

"Even with our entire Army, we wouldn't have had enough people to secure every weapons dump and cache in Iraq, even if we had known where all of them were."

That may well be, but I feel that more divisions would have been able to secure the ones the lead units found and the ones we did know about.

"Our Civil Affairs teams were regularly directed to ammo dumps and caches in the desert, by locals. Some of these were truly huge, covering many acres with buried stashes of shells and ammunition. They would do a preliminary assessment, and notify the EOD guys. There was no way to secure the sites, so they would just leave and hope that everything would stay where it was."

I think that supports my claim. It doesn't do the locals or our follow on troops any good if there are not enough units in theater to secure the ones we learn about.

"Even at guarded sites, we often discovered 'back entrances' with folks stealing anything they could carry. Most of them wanted it for the scrap metal, but it's not hard to imagine that some of them ended up being used against us."

Sounds like a clear case of not enough troops or units.

"RPG propellant and warheads don't work well after a year or more buried in a back yard. Unfortunately, most sorts of artillery shells seem to handle the storage conditions pretty well."

The artillery shell's metal case does a very good job of preventing the elements inside them from out gassing. They can last for a very long time.

"EOD is destroying literally tons of stuff out of those dumps every day. They have a lot of guys working it, and still estimated years of 7-day-a-week work to destroy even what we already know about."

Sounds like we need more troops. During Vietnam, a lot of troopers (that is non-EOD MOS types) were trained to blow things up. I get the impressing that only EOD troops are doing all the work. If the finding units can dig things up, lay they out for inventory and photos, then they can also do some of the smaller demolition work. During my time, 11Bs (infantry) and 11Ds (scouts) both had basic demo training.

If tankers and artillery men can be trained to conduct infantry/swat type house to house searchs then why not train other MOS's in basic demolition.

I just don't buy the line that "we" didn't know.
Sgt, Scouts Out!

_________________
"You can never have too much reconnaissance."
General G.S. Patton Jr.
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic    Reply to topic    Printer Friendly Page    Forum Index ›  AFV News Discussion Board
Page 1 of 1
All times are GMT - 6 Hours



Jump to:  


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You cannot attach files in this forum
You cannot download files in this forum