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Wrecks and relics in the USA
The AFV ASSOCIATION was formed in 1964 to support the thoughts and research of all those interested in Armored Fighting Vehicles and related topics, such as AFV drawings. The emphasis has always been on sharing information and communicating with other members of similar interests; e.g. German armor, Japanese AFVs, or whatever.
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Doug_Kibbey
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 02, 2006 1:41 pm
Post subject: Re: Wrecks and relics in the USA

- Joe_D

Doug, I am all for a site listing vehicles, seperating the US from overseas would work too. Finding an editor would be the issue. If it was done right (I'm sure it will) it would be a great tool for those of us that travel alot. It could also possibly document those "Missing Examples" or dispell any rumors of where is what. It could end up being the ultimate source of vehicle locations with this groups expertise.

Joe D


I hear you Joe...all we need is a couple of qualified ball-carriers to step up and offer their services as the "master list edittors" (with input from all our "field personnel"). A couple of names leap to my mind, but it's not for me to be "volunteering" people who might not want the burden.

I'm leaving tomorrow for S. America for about 10 days and right after, Holland and Italy...maybe you guys will have sorted this out when I get back at the end of the month and we can implement it...


Last edited by Doug_Kibbey on Fri Jun 02, 2006 4:04 pm; edited 2 times in total
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Neil_Baumgardner
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 02, 2006 1:41 pm
Post subject: Re: Wrecks and relics in the USA

- Joe_D
Neil, do a Google search of Sea Girt/Lawrenceville National Gaurd Museum and some pictures of it come up. I didn't know what it was but Marmon Herrington could be it come to think of it.


Nevermind, found it on the museum site's photo gallery. It is a Marmon Herrington - quite an odd find for NJ! Looks like I may have to make a trip sometime this summer!



Neil
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L.Delsing
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 03, 2006 5:16 am
Post subject: Re: Wrecks and relics in the USA

Everybody thanks again!

I find it a very good idea. The only problem for me is that I'am not a computer whiz...... At this moment I have all the info in word with some tabs and thats it. I realy don't know how to put it on a internet site. When I put it one this site for example I already loose the tabs which makes reading already a lot more difficult.

The document I have is 205 pages long and contains all the main battle tank wrecks and relic info I could find in magazines, internet or during trips / exercises of myself or collegues who are also interested in this subject. I'am more than happy to share this so everybody can benefit from the info.

Its good to meet others who are interested in tank ''spotting''

Regards,
Lesley
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Doug_Kibbey
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 03, 2006 6:45 pm
Post subject: Re: Wrecks and relics in the USA

- L.Delsing
Everybody thanks again!

I find it a very good idea. The only problem for me is that I'am not a computer whiz...... At this moment I have all the info in word with some tabs and thats it. I realy don't know how to put it on a internet site. When I put it one this site for example I already loose the tabs which makes reading already a lot more difficult.

The document I have is 205 pages long and contains all the main battle tank wrecks and relic info I could find in magazines, internet or during trips / exercises of myself or collegues who are also interested in this subject. I'am more than happy to share this so everybody can benefit from the info.

Its good to meet others who are interested in tank ''spotting''

Regards,
Lesley


Lesley,
Computer wizardry not required....just need to compile the information for the "area of interest" and put in a post (which can be revised with corrections and new information) in an organized way. If you can use txt. or Word. (or this forum as now), you already have the skillset. Wink
Think about putting what you've got for international so far and putting in a Word Document and "polishing" it over the next week or ten days (I'll be away that long),then it could be cut-and-pasted to an easily editted sticky post. Perhaps a certain Mr. Baumgardner will consider doing the same for stuff on this side of the pond. Obviously, exhange of information is to be expected and encouraged.

...that is, if you guys will take the lead...we're still waiting for "nominees". Wink
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Neil_Baumgardner
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 03, 2006 9:56 pm
Post subject: Re: Wrecks and relics in the USA

I am all for it, but I would suggest that in keeping with this board ("AFV News") that we should not limit the listing to CFE definitions, or even tanks. I'll admit that sorta opens an pandora's box, hard to define what doesnt go in. But I would suggest we start with Lesley's list, expand to include as much knowledge as we have, and go from there.

Unfortunately, I am about to leave for a 2 week trip to Europe so I wont be of much help in the interim. That being said, I will probably stop by Bovington, probably not Saumur, but will likely look for one new place to visit, possibly Brussells... I will certainly also have some pics of current vehicles to share in about 2 weeks or so...

Neil
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Joe_D
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 04, 2006 2:01 am
Post subject: Re: Wrecks and relics in the USA

In my travels I come across a lot of interesting vehicles, Having a place to list them would be great. I too am traveling tommorow, leave for FT Bliss and should be there Sunday night. Might not have any internet access for a while. After that on to Iraq for a while. Whatever I come across I will be sure to post if possible. Hopefully this new forum isn't blocked from me.

Joe D
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L.Delsing
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 04, 2006 6:55 am
Post subject: Re: Wrecks and relics in the USA

Joe D[/quote]
I'm leaving tomorrow for S. America for about 10 days and right after, Holland and Italy...maybe you guys will have sorted this out when I get back at the end of the month and we can implement it...[/quote]

Which area do you go in Holland?

Mmmm, in about 10 days I will attend the toxic agent training at Ft leonard Wood

Regards,
Lesley
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Uhu_Fledermaus
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 04, 2006 7:03 am
Post subject: Re: Wrecks and relics in the USA

Shocked

Holland ? ....... you mean The Netherlands Wink ?

If so make shure you make a visit to Overloon, they have some wonderfull exibits there and also a rare Panther.

Incase off when you get here (The Netherlands) get in touch and maybe I could give you few pointers Wink


fled
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Roy_A_Lingle
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Location: El Paso & Ft Bliss, Texas
PostPosted: Sun Jun 04, 2006 5:24 pm
Post subject: Re: Wrecks and relics in the USA

Hi Folks!

- jcneel
Living here in Texas, I was able to drive up and see both Camp Mabry in Austin...
Here some photos I took:
From Camp Mabry:



Anyone notice something different about this Sherman? Shocked

That vehicle is NOT a M4-105. It is also not a M4A3-105.
Both of those vehicles had the later large hatchs in the hull. This vehicle has earlier small hatchs!

That looks like one of the two pilot vehicles manufactured in 1943 to test the layout of a 105 installed in a Sherman turret.

That is a M4E5 (page 210 of Hunnicutt's Sherman book) with at least two upgrades and a possible post war E8 upgrade.

I think JC has found a very rare version of a Sherman.
Now if it was only possible to learn the history of that vehicle after the testing was completed.

Spot Report!
Sgt, Scouts Out!

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jcneel
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 05, 2006 1:17 am
Post subject: Re: Wrecks and relics in the USA

Looking at my copy of the Hunnicutt Sherman book - the M4E5 has a low bustle turret. The one from Camp Mabry has a high bustle turret. Having shown this over at Armorama message board - someone had suggested that this Sherman may have previously been in Israeli service - but I don't know for sure. Many of the Camp Mabry vehicles were listed in their exhibit guide giving some background on many of the specific vehilces, but the M4 was not listed in the guide.

Here's a side shot of the vehicle - maybe someone can tell more for this:



later

Chris Neel
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bsmart
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Location: Central Maryland
PostPosted: Mon Jun 05, 2006 2:08 am
Post subject: Re: Wrecks and relics in the USA

Does that hull look long to anyone else? The spacing of the wheels lead me to believe it started life with the longer hull of the M4A4. If it did serve with the Israeli's it may have been modified very extensively. I wonder what engine it has in it?

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toadmanstankpictures
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 05, 2006 5:32 am
Post subject: Re: Wrecks and relics in the USA

The side view of the Sherman tells me that it's ex-Israeli and that it started life as a M4A4. The circular discs on the hull rear are spare roadwheel holders and are typical of Israeli Shermans. Also, the engine deck splash guards for the deck access hatches are set farther back than would be seen on a M4/M4A1. Finally, just behind the engine deck splash guard is the exhaust outlet for the Cummins diesel engine. The 105 turret was probably added in the U.S.

As for the M4A4 part, check out the spacing between the HVSS bogies. It's too wide for anything but a M4A4.

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Roy_A_Lingle
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Location: El Paso & Ft Bliss, Texas
PostPosted: Mon Jun 05, 2006 6:58 am
Post subject: Re: Wrecks and relics in the USA

Hi Folks!

Now that I have seen a good side view of that vehicle, I must agree it looks like it served time with the IDF and they did a number of upgrades.

Clearly not one of the two M4E5-105 vehicles.

Looks like it would make a very good conversion idea for a model contest. Just wait for a judge to claim there never was a Sherman with those futures and then lay out this set of photos! Twisted Evil

So many model kits and conversion ideas, so little time.....
Sgt, Scouts Out! Smile

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General G.S. Patton Jr.
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GT98
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 05, 2006 4:02 pm
Post subject: Re: Wrecks and relics in the USA

- Neil_Baumgardner
- Joe_D
Neil, do a Google search of Sea Girt/Lawrenceville National Gaurd Museum and some pictures of it come up. I didn't know what it was but Marmon Herrington could be it come to think of it.


Nevermind, found it on the museum site's photo gallery. It is a Marmon Herrington - quite an odd find for NJ! Looks like I may have to make a trip sometime this summer!



Neil


It came from a private collector or something in New Jersey and was donated to the Museum according the marker for it. I thought the same thing...I ran across it quite by accident..I was at the Armory for a Dedication for my Girlfriend's Grandfather (was having the Trenton Sea Cadets named after him, but that another story) and saw it then.

The BVP-80 just magically appeared about 2 weeks ago at the Wrightstown Gate Circle on Fort Dix and I was like WTF when I saw it coming into work.

I have no clue where it came from and the T-72 looks brand new also..besides the drive sprocket being de-milled by chopping off one guide tooth! The only thing I can come up with is the BVP-80 came over at the same time that the Kosovo refugees where at Fort Dix. I'll ask my friend if he can point me in the direction of who I can ask where the stuff came from.
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Neil_Baumgardner
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 05, 2006 4:14 pm
Post subject: Re: Wrecks and relics in the USA

- GT98
The only thing I can come up with is the BVP-80 came over at the same time that the Kosovo refugees where at Fort Dix. I'll ask my friend if he can point me in the direction of who I can ask where the stuff came from.


Well, I certainly hope/dont think the refugees brought it with them!!

Neil
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