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11th ACR (OP Alpha?) 01MAY79
The AFV ASSOCIATION was formed in 1964 to support the thoughts and research of all those interested in Armored Fighting Vehicles and related topics, such as AFV drawings. The emphasis has always been on sharing information and communicating with other members of similar interests; e.g. German armor, Japanese AFVs, or whatever.
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Doug_Kibbey
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 26, 2007 1:17 am
Post subject: Re: 11th ACR (OP Alpha?) 01MAY79

I like your Sheridan sign, Mark...here's mine (probably a little older than yours). I'd like to see yours higher res. Where's it from? What's the story on that one?

Doug
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Joe_D
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 26, 2007 1:48 am
Post subject: Re: 11th ACR (OP Alpha?) 01MAY79

Mark,

I can't comment on the regiments (2nd and 11th ACR) but can on Divisional CAV. I too was in 3-12 CAV from 84-86 and we were "Hotel" series which predated all the "Division '86" changes. We had 3 line troops (A,B,C) and an HHT. The line troop had a 1st, 2nd and 3rd Platoon along with a HQ's.

The troop line platoons had 4 M60A3's, 2 M113 Dragon Tracks, 2 M901 ITV's and a "Slick" M113 for the Platoon Leader. HQ's had the Mortar section with three 4.2" M113's, the Maintenance section with an M88A1, M113 and M35A2 with Trailer, Command section with an M113 Slick, M577 and 3 M151's and supply with another M35A2.

Bumper numbers for a line platoon were;

10= M113 Slick Platoon Leader
11= M113 Dragon Scout Section SGT
12= M901 ITV
13= M901 ITV
14= M113 Dragon
15= M60A3 Platoon SGT
16= M60A3
17= M60A3
18= M60A3 Tank Section SGT

(Second platoon starting with a 2 and 3rd with a 3)

Crews were all 19D's except the Tanks and the one Medic who rode with the Platoon Leader. Also, 2 of the three Platoon SGT slots were Scouts but still were put on a Tank (Got interesting sometimes). Incidentally, the Mortar tracks (11C's) were all numbered 19,29, and 39 because they originally belonged to the platoons but were consolodated and put in HQ's platoon (Before my time). The HHT was a very large beast and I wouldn't know where to start with what they had.

Hope this helps a little.

Joe D
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Roy_A_Lingle
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 26, 2007 5:56 am
Post subject: Re: 11th ACR (OP Alpha?) 01MAY79

Hi Doug! Hi Folks!

- Doug_Kibbey

I like your Sheridan sign, Mark...here's mine (probably a little older than yours). I'd like to see yours higher res. Where's it from? What's the story on that one?
Doug




It looks like a board war game counter for a Sheridan. Possible an Avalon Hill Platoon level board game. All those numbers are for things like firepower, range, speed, and armored protection. If I can remember, I will dig out an old game and look up the details. Avalon Hill used a standard format in a number of board games that they put out back in 1970-1980s.

My 2 cents,
Sgt, Scouts Out!

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General G.S. Patton Jr.
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bsmart
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 26, 2007 8:12 am
Post subject: Re: 11th ACR (OP Alpha?) 01MAY79

- Roy_A_Lingle
Hi Doug! Hi Folks!

- Doug_Kibbey

I like your Sheridan sign, Mark...here's mine (probably a little older than yours). I'd like to see yours higher res. Where's it from? What's the story on that one?
Doug




It looks like a board war game counter for a Sheridan. Possible an Avalon Hill Platoon level board game. All those numbers are for things like firepower, range, speed, and armored protection. If I can remember, I will dig out an old game and look up the details. Avalon Hill used a standard format in a number of board games that they put out back in 1970-1980s.

My 2 cents,
Sgt, Scouts Out!


Definitly a game counter could be from any of the games based on the old PanzerBlitz game. The color makes it look like an Avalon Hiill counter (They had the most hideous color choices) but could be from SPI. SPI had actually created PanzerBlitz but as a small struggling company ended up selling the game to the more established Avalon Hill. AH went on to do Panzer Leader (western front WWII) and Arab Israeli Wars (mideast 60s-70s). SPI continued developing the game system coming out with KampfPanzer (Europe 1938-41), Desert War (North Africa), Panzer 44 (NW Europe 44-45) and MechWar 77 (Europe mid 70s), October War (Mideast 1973). Panzer 44 and MechWar 77 were intentionally designed to fit together letting you do anything a lot of Cold War scenarios. But most of the others can be massaged into working together giving pretty complete coverage of the 'Tank' era (Up til '81-82 when SPI got bought out by TSR, the D&D people Evil or Very Mad ) That particular game design has spawned a lot of 'home brew' variations of various quality. I would have to pull some of my games out of storage to see if that counter came directly out of on of the mass market games or not

Buq-buq - you want to save us the trouble and clue us in ?

Yes some of you collect model kits that you may or may not ever put together. I collected games that I may or may not ever play, and books I may or may not ever read

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Buq-Buq
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 26, 2007 7:48 pm
Post subject: Re: 11th ACR (OP Alpha?) 01MAY79

Doug, Roy, Joe, Bob, et al:

Yup, Roy and Bob are all over this avatar business. It is indeed artwork for a counter I did for an Arab-Israeli Wars add-on I fiddled with back in the mid-eighties. I had been working on a Lebanon War (1982) variant, and I got side-tracked by exploring the possibility of a U.S. 'intervention' on-the-ground in — wait for it — Libya. Since Sheridans were still equipping the 3/73 Armor (or were they still 4/68 Armor then?) at that time, they were a natural for inclusion along with other 82nd Airborne stuff.

Bob, that is an impressive litany of tactical wargames that you spewed off in an impromptu fashion. I'm glad to see that I'm not the only one who has just as many unplayed games as unbuilt tank models in the closet.

Does that mean I've just been outed?

Anyway, I don't have all of the titles that you named off, but I . . . well, wait, frighteningly enough, I actually do. Correction! I have all but one of the games you mentioned (I don't have Panzer '44). ~shudder~ "You mean to tell me that I don't have enough money for a down payment on a house because I've spent $40,000 on shoes?"

Joe, thanks much for your info. That "Hotel" Series TO&E is basically what I remember from my time in 2/11 ACR (1979-1981). I think that the bumper numbers were a little different (I think our tanks were 11-14); our mortar tracks were also the X9 bumper numbers, and they usually were consolidated into the Troop Headquarters for us as well.

The thing that I find interesting about all of this is that — given what is presented on the Eaglehorse web site (quoted above) about the Cav Troop TO&E when they had Sheridans, is that there must have been a lot of new vehicles and crews coming in to each squadron when the Sheridans went away and were replaced by M60s. Unless my count is off, there would be 3 additional M113s and their crews (~15 scouts?) added to each platoon. Although, I suppose the extra un-horsed Sheridan crews could have gone to the scout tracks? And changed to 19Ds? Or were they transferred out and new guys brought in?

And what about the TOW tracks? Some sources say that two of the 'new' AFVs would have been the TOW tracks — M233E1s or TOW CAPs as were discussed further up this thread . . . if you believe that. But to my memory, we did not have M113/TOW vehicles in 2/11 ACR until the M901 ITVs arrived in . . . spring of 1980? All of the M113s in the cav troops were plain vanilla M113A1s with a scout squad. These latter vehicles were equipped with that cupola fitting that allowed the crew to fire the Dragon ATGM from the vehicle. I can't remember what it was called. The Dargon-thingee, I think. But receiving TOW vehicles would have presumably involved lots of training & familiarity with a new weapon type . . . I know it did for us when the M901s arrived.

Anyway. Is any of this ringing a bell with anyone?




Mark
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GaryKato
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 27, 2007 12:36 am
Post subject: Re: 11th ACR (OP Alpha?) 01MAY79

I was into collecting tactical modern (WW2-Present) wargames at one time. Anyone remember SPI's original Red Star/White Star? I seem to recall it had M114s and M551s (or maybe it was just an ACAV unit). Fortunately I was able to quit that habit. If only I could stop buying kits (or at least build some of them). I've even started getting some resin stuff; Hobby Fan's M50A1 Ontos (no doubt from hanging around here too much). Yeah, I have an Accurate Armour M114A1 on order as well.
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Roy_A_Lingle
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 27, 2007 5:07 am
Post subject: Re: 11th ACR (OP Alpha?) 01MAY79

Hi Gary! Hi Folks!

- GaryKato

I was into collecting tactical modern (WW2-Present) wargames at one time. Anyone remember SPI's original Red Star/White Star? I seem to recall it had M114s and M551s (or maybe it was just an ACAV unit). Fortunately I was able to quit that habit. If only I could stop buying kits (or at least build some of them). I've even started getting some resin stuff; Hobby Fan's M50A1 Ontos (no doubt from hanging around here too much). Yeah, I have an Accurate Armour M114A1 on order as well.


Me too! Except I already have Accurate Armour's M114A1E1 kit! Hobby Fan's M50A1 Ontos is still on a wish list I keep.

I remember the title Red Star/White Star. I don't think that is one of the games I have in a small coat cloest that is so full, I can't get the door closed all the way.

My first wargame was Avalon Hill's Battle of the Budge. I have spent many an hour on that one. Never lost as the Americans, never won as the Germans.

Another game I have spent way to many hours at is SPI's War In Europe Monster Game. As the Allied player, I won everytime but once against myself as the Axis player playing the DOS based computer version.

I first learned about board games during my time in Germany. Every time I would PCS, I would find new people who wanted to learn and by the time they would start getting good, I would PCS again. When I was in Korea, I met a guy who was a quik study and I got him into the board version of War In Europe. After I retired, I was never able to find anyone here in El Paso that was interested in board gaming. I have tried a few of the PC based games, but never got hooked on any of them.

Some more of my very old history!
Sgt, Scouts Out!

_________________
"You can never have too much reconnaissance."
General G.S. Patton Jr.
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bsmart
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 27, 2007 12:59 pm
Post subject: Re: 11th ACR (OP Alpha?) 01MAY79

I started playing back at VMI various Avalon Hill games and got into SPI games. SPI was starting the idea of putting a game in every issue of the magazine and they had some good and some real dogs. Also got into minature Armor mainly WWII Eastern Front using a rules set called Tractics. had charts for almost every vehicle we could imagine from 1940 up to the 60s (This was in 1972) and very detailed charts for each class of gun with penetration droping off with range, and varieing with the type of ammo used (AP/APC, APCR/HVAP, APDS)

Then once in the Air Force with family, school, work, never finding anyone else interested in them, etc I fell more into the reading, research, thinking about the games and what was behind them. So when email lists and discussion groups came around it was a way to find other folks interested in this stuff all over the world. I never got into computer based games but I keep toying with using the computer as a support tool (generating status sheets, charts, counters)

There is si=ome interest in gaming now. Panzerblitz and it's offshoots have several discussion groups which folks use to find other gamers 'in their area' There are several miniatures rules sets 'Flames of War' is pretty popular for WWII gaming these days.

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Bob Smart ([email protected])
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Doug_Kibbey
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 27, 2007 1:08 pm
Post subject: Re: 11th ACR (OP Alpha?) 01MAY79

Wow, I am so out of it...I never heard of Avalon Hill or any of that stuff. I just loved that Sheridan shilhouette! Jeez, these answers are longer than if the thing was about a real unit, so it obviously sparked a passion and following in somebody. Interesting reading, thanks!
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