±Recent Visitors

Recent Visitors to Com-Central!

±User Info-big


Welcome Anonymous

Nickname
Password

Membership:
Latest: HighestAce
New Today: 0
New Yesterday: 0
Overall: 6648

People Online:
Members: 0
Visitors: 305
Total: 305
Who Is Where:
 Visitors:
01: Home
02: Member Screenshots
03: Community Forums
04: Community Forums
05: Home
06: Home
07: Member Screenshots
08: Community Forums
09: Home
10: Community Forums
11: Community Forums
12: Home
13: Community Forums
14: Community Forums
15: Statistics
16: News Archive
17: Community Forums
18: Community Forums
19: Community Forums
20: Community Forums
21: Community Forums
22: Photo Gallery
23: Community Forums
24: Community Forums
25: Home
26: Community Forums
27: Community Forums
28: Photo Gallery
29: Community Forums
30: Home
31: Home
32: Community Forums
33: Community Forums
34: Home
35: Home
36: Community Forums
37: Community Forums
38: Community Forums
39: Community Forums
40: Community Forums
41: Community Forums
42: Home
43: Community Forums
44: Home
45: Photo Gallery
46: Community Forums
47: Community Forums
48: Statistics
49: News Archive
50: Home
51: Member Screenshots
52: Community Forums
53: Home
54: Home
55: Community Forums
56: Community Forums
57: Community Forums
58: Home
59: Home
60: Community Forums
61: Community Forums
62: Photo Gallery
63: Home
64: Community Forums
65: Community Forums
66: Community Forums
67: Home
68: Community Forums
69: Community Forums
70: News Archive
71: Home
72: Community Forums
73: Community Forums
74: Photo Gallery
75: Community Forums
76: Community Forums
77: Home
78: Home
79: Downloads
80: Home
81: Home
82: Community Forums
83: Community Forums
84: Community Forums
85: Community Forums
86: Home
87: Community Forums
88: Community Forums
89: Home
90: Downloads
91: Community Forums
92: Community Forums
93: Home
94: Community Forums
95: Home
96: News Archive
97: Community Forums
98: Home
99: Member Screenshots
100: Community Forums
101: Home
102: Downloads
103: Community Forums
104: Community Forums
105: Community Forums
106: Home
107: Home
108: Community Forums
109: Community Forums
110: Home
111: Community Forums
112: Community Forums
113: Downloads
114: Home
115: Community Forums
116: Home
117: Home
118: Photo Gallery
119: Community Forums
120: Downloads
121: Community Forums
122: Community Forums
123: Search
124: Community Forums
125: Community Forums
126: Member Screenshots
127: Home
128: Community Forums
129: Home
130: News Archive
131: Home
132: Downloads
133: Home
134: Home
135: Member Screenshots
136: Member Screenshots
137: Member Screenshots
138: Community Forums
139: Community Forums
140: Community Forums
141: Home
142: Community Forums
143: Community Forums
144: Home
145: Community Forums
146: Community Forums
147: Community Forums
148: Home
149: Downloads
150: Photo Gallery
151: Community Forums
152: News Archive
153: Home
154: Community Forums
155: Community Forums
156: Member Screenshots
157: Community Forums
158: Community Forums
159: Home
160: Home
161: Community Forums
162: Photo Gallery
163: Community Forums
164: Home
165: News Archive
166: News Archive
167: Member Screenshots
168: Community Forums
169: Community Forums
170: Community Forums
171: Community Forums
172: Home
173: Community Forums
174: Downloads
175: Photo Gallery
176: Home
177: Home
178: Community Forums
179: Photo Gallery
180: Home
181: Community Forums
182: Community Forums
183: Home
184: Community Forums
185: Community Forums
186: Community Forums
187: Community Forums
188: Community Forums
189: Home
190: Community Forums
191: Home
192: Member Screenshots
193: Community Forums
194: Community Forums
195: Home
196: Member Screenshots
197: Community Forums
198: Downloads
199: Community Forums
200: Community Forums
201: News
202: Community Forums
203: Community Forums
204: Community Forums
205: Community Forums
206: Community Forums
207: Home
208: Downloads
209: Downloads
210: Home
211: Community Forums
212: Community Forums
213: News Archive
214: Community Forums
215: Photo Gallery
216: Home
217: Photo Gallery
218: Downloads
219: Community Forums
220: Home
221: Photo Gallery
222: Community Forums
223: Home
224: Community Forums
225: Statistics
226: Home
227: Community Forums
228: Home
229: Member Screenshots
230: Community Forums
231: Downloads
232: Home
233: Photo Gallery
234: Community Forums
235: Home
236: Community Forums
237: Community Forums
238: Community Forums
239: Community Forums
240: Community Forums
241: Community Forums
242: Community Forums
243: Downloads
244: Home
245: Home
246: Community Forums
247: Home
248: Community Forums
249: Community Forums
250: Community Forums
251: Member Screenshots
252: Home
253: Photo Gallery
254: Home
255: Member Screenshots
256: Community Forums
257: Community Forums
258: Community Forums
259: Home
260: Home
261: News
262: Community Forums
263: Home
264: Home
265: Home
266: Home
267: Home
268: Community Forums
269: Member Screenshots
270: Member Screenshots
271: Community Forums
272: Community Forums
273: Home
274: Community Forums
275: Member Screenshots
276: Community Forums
277: Community Forums
278: Home
279: Downloads
280: Community Forums
281: Community Forums
282: Community Forums
283: Home
284: Community Forums
285: Photo Gallery
286: Member Screenshots
287: Community Forums
288: Home
289: Community Forums
290: Community Forums
291: Downloads
292: Home
293: Downloads
294: Community Forums
295: Home
296: Community Forums
297: News Archive
298: Community Forums
299: Photo Gallery
300: Home
301: Member Screenshots
302: Community Forums
303: Home
304: Community Forums
305: Community Forums

Staff Online:

No staff members are online!
Ordnance Museum move - recent articles & maps
The AFV ASSOCIATION was formed in 1964 to support the thoughts and research of all those interested in Armored Fighting Vehicles and related topics, such as AFV drawings. The emphasis has always been on sharing information and communicating with other members of similar interests; e.g. German armor, Japanese AFVs, or whatever.
Go to page 1, 2  Next
Post new topic    Reply to topic    Printer Friendly Page     Forum Index ›  AFV News Discussion Board

View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
Neil_Baumgardner
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 3942
Location: Arlington, VA
PostPosted: Wed Jan 03, 2007 12:51 am
Post subject: Ordnance Museum move - recent articles & maps

Stumbled upon this, but not sure how new it is - from the most recent Ordnance Museum Foundation meeting?

Neil

www.panzermuseum.com/t...useum.html

Tiger I Returning to Aberdeen

If you've been wondering about what's happened to the Tiger I tank that used to be at the U.S. Army Ordnance Museum at Aberdeen, we have an update for you!

According to Dr. William Atwater, the museum's director, the museum's Tiger I - which has been in England undergoing restoration - was scheduled to return to the museum in November 2006, transported in a U.S. Air Force C-5 Galaxy aircraft.

Unfortunately, the aircraft that was scheduled to transport the Tiger was the one that crashed at Dover Air Force Base on 3 April (fortunately, however, all 17 crew members survived). The crash and the demands for air transport to support military operations in Iraq and Afghanistan completely upset the transport timetable. However, Dr. Atwater expected the Tiger to return to Aberdeen in 2007 on a date yet to be determined.

In a bit of related news, Dr. Atwater also said that the Ordnance Museum would be moving from Aberdeen to Ft. Lee, Virginia. Everything - including the 16" coastal artillery gun and the German Leopold railway gun - will be moved there to a new 175,000 square foot facility the Army is planning to build. The move is scheduled to take place in 2009.


Last edited by Neil_Baumgardner on Thu Jan 03, 2008 12:39 am; edited 3 times in total
Back to top
View user's profile
bsmart
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 23, 2006
Posts: 2523
Location: Central Maryland
PostPosted: Wed Jan 03, 2007 1:09 am
Post subject: Re: Tiger to return to the Ordnance Museum this year?...

I am pretty sure that did not come from an announcement at the December Foundation meeting. Most of it matches with what I have been told.

I don't know if the C-5 that crashed was actually the aircraft that was scheduled to bring the Tiger 'home' but I believe that the crash, along with the subsequent disruption of the scheduled flights (There was a short grounding of ALL C-5s until they determined if it was a fleetwide problem. That is pretty normal after a catistrophic accident) took any slack out of the flying schedule for the near future.

I will not speculate on future plans but rest assured when I find out from the folks at Aberdeen about any firm plans for the Tiger I will let folks here know.

_________________
Bob Smart ([email protected])
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail
Maple_Leaf_Eh
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 517

PostPosted: Wed Jan 03, 2007 1:13 am
Post subject: Re: Tiger to return to the Ordnance Museum this year?...

I guess using a ship never crossed their minds ....
Back to top
View user's profile
bsmart
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 23, 2006
Posts: 2523
Location: Central Maryland
PostPosted: Wed Jan 03, 2007 2:17 am
Post subject: Re: Tiger to return to the Ordnance Museum this year?...

Yes it did. I've heard one proposal was to use an ocean going barge but that the risk was deamed un acceptable. I believe that since it won't fit in a standard container that rules out most ships that haul cargo across the Atlantic.

There are other concerns I can't go into now (I'm not trying to be secretive but have been asked not to speculate, and want to stay in good graces so I can pass on solid information when it is available) but it has been thought out and at least to me the reasons make sense.

_________________
Bob Smart ([email protected])
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail
jtrowbridge5
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 234

PostPosted: Wed Jan 03, 2007 10:46 pm
Post subject: Re: Tiger to return to the Ordnance Museum this year?...

sorry folks but we want to keep it here in england, we are short of tiger1s and have only two king tigers, you couldn't look after it properly first time so no second chance
Dennis
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail
bsmart
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 23, 2006
Posts: 2523
Location: Central Maryland
PostPosted: Thu Jan 04, 2007 1:11 am
Post subject: Re: Tiger to return to the Ordnance Museum this year?...

- jtrowbridge5
sorry folks but we want to keep it here in england, we are short of tiger1s and have only two king tigers, you couldn't look after it properly first time so no second chance
Dennis


Not funny and I will only respond to say that the plans are to bring it back sooner rather than later.

_________________
Bob Smart ([email protected])
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail
Neil_Baumgardner
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 3942
Location: Arlington, VA
PostPosted: Thu Jan 04, 2007 2:28 am
Post subject: Re: Tiger to return to the Ordnance Museum this year?...

- jtrowbridge5
sorry folks but we want to keep it here in england, we are short of tiger1s and have only two king tigers, you couldn't look after it properly first time so no second chance
Dennis


You jest but I suspect some museums may have taken a similar attitude with regard to the items they were "lent" by the Ordnance Museum - although I have noted an apparent centralization of some of these loaners into Kevin Wheatcroft's hands, hopefully in anticipation of their return I can hope?...

Neil
Back to top
View user's profile
RichardIsner
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Feb 04, 2006
Posts: 13

PostPosted: Thu Jan 04, 2007 3:21 am
Post subject: Re: Tiger to return to the Ordnance Museum this year?...

Hey,

Nobody wants a Tiger in this country more than me! But if Kevin Wheatcroft will restore it and run it in England, he can have it. I will pay good money to fly over and see it, especiially if it is protected from the weather!

Cheers,

Richard Isner
Back to top
View user's profile
jtrowbridge5
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 234

PostPosted: Thu Jan 04, 2007 8:59 am
Post subject: Re: Tiger to return to the Ordnance Museum this year?...

my post was only a joke but as bob seems to be serious ,we still see lots of priceless German tanks stood in the open in one of the richest countries in the world just rusting away.so money really cant be the problem maybe a massive lack of enthusiasm
Dennis
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail
Joe_D
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 29, 2006
Posts: 2067
Location: Razorback Country
PostPosted: Thu Jan 04, 2007 9:06 am
Post subject: Re: Tiger to return to the Ordnance Museum this year?...

Reminds me of of a guy who owns a very rare car,
Since he owns it he can do what he wants with it (Leave it out doors and exposed to the elements or chop it up and put a modern engine in it with cool wheels that go round and round Mad ) even though the eventual demise will be a loss to everyone. I doubt very seriously APG would do anything but treat this tiger with the utmost care after her restoration.
The statement of Richard's "Paying good money to fly over...." kinda makes me think if people are willing to pay to fly that far to see this kind of rarity then why not give to APG/Patton or other museums to restore them here at home so the whole "Whose tank is it ?? " argument never arises. It would be nice if the museums would kind of establish an "Adopt a Tank" program so you can donate to a specific vehicle too. Maybe even get a tasteful sponsor that won't overshadow the piece it self. Just a thought. Too many rare vehicles are slowly being eaten away by rust and neglect.

Joe D
Back to top
View user's profile Photo Gallery
Neil_Baumgardner
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 3942
Location: Arlington, VA
PostPosted: Thu Jan 04, 2007 12:50 pm
Post subject: Re: Tiger to return to the Ordnance Museum this year?...

The US Army Ordnance Museum has suffered from a number of problems over the years, and currently faces some new ones. Historically, it was simply a collection for test, analysis & training - hence the cutaways. This frankly isnt much different from Bovington or Kubinka. The latter's collection was all outside at one point as well. And the Ordnance Museum is not alone in having lost invaluable items to scrapping - Bovington scrapped the E-100 hull in the 1950s as well. The big problem has been that it is the _Ordnance_ Museum - the museum of the Ordnance corps within the US Army. Historically, the Ordnance corps was what did the acquisition & testing of Army vehicles and artillery. However, in 1961 the Ordnance corps' responsibilities were passed to the new Army Materiel Command. This meant that the Ordnance branch lost a significant amount of power - and most importantly money!

As a result, you have the Patton Museum - very well supported by a combat branch (armor) with a large spacious museum. Instead of one large armor museum like in France, Britain or Canada - the US has two. One is relatively rich, one is relatively poor. We have the Smithsonian National Air & Space Museum, but no national armor museum. Actually, we dont even have a National museum for the Army (never mind armor), although it is scheduled to be established by 2011 or so... The Ordnance branch simply hasnt had the pull in terms of money, resources, and sponsors - Ordnance isnt a combat branch, so there arent too many Ordnance generals... Now, should the museum & foundation have probably found some way to scrap together the money over the last decade or two for a new museum, probably so... But the above explains why its been difficult to do so...

The current problem facing the museum is where it will be. The DoD BRAC calls for the Ordnance branch - and the Ordnance Museum - to move to Fort Lee. The date for the museum's move seems to float somewhere between 2009 and 2012. Funding for the move & new 175,000 sf facility is TBD. The Army could end up covering all of it, its too soon to say... As a result, its hard to start fundraising if you dont know what if any shortfall there will be...

BTW, flying the Tiger over on a C-5 is a different kind of money altogether I suspect. Its more an issue of an available aircraft than money... I suspect Ordnance Museum wouldnt pay for it, and the cost to the Air Force would be relatively incidental.

Neil
Back to top
View user's profile
bsmart
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 23, 2006
Posts: 2523
Location: Central Maryland
PostPosted: Thu Jan 04, 2007 1:23 pm
Post subject: Re: Tiger to return to the Ordnance Museum this year?...

- Joe_D
It would be nice if the museums would kind of establish an "Adopt a Tank" program so you can donate to a specific vehicle too. Maybe even get a tasteful sponsor that won't overshadow the piece it self. Just a thought. Too many rare vehicles are slowly being eaten away by rust and neglect.

Joe D


Actually Aberdeen has an 'Adopt a Tank' program. Several of the refurbs have been done with money donated under that program. For Example the M-10 was paid for with a donation from a person who's father fought in a Tank Destroyer Unit in WWII. He actually asked the unit veterans at a reunion whether he should do an M10 or an M18 (The unit used both) and the overwhelming choice was the M10.

My concern is that although some folks could afford to 'fly over there' to see a Tiger (or anything else) there is a whole segment of the population who can't. There are the Boy Scout troops and the High School WWII class that come to Aberdeen because it is 'available' Even if we moved it to Knox (or heaven forbid as one person suggested on this forum a year or so ago to Arizona where the climate is better for preservation) it would make it harder for some folks to see the collection. In some ways I think haveing multiple museums scattered around the country is better because it allows more people to see some of the actual historical vehicles.

_________________
Bob Smart ([email protected])
Back to top
View user's profile Send e-mail
Neil_Baumgardner
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 3942
Location: Arlington, VA
PostPosted: Fri Jan 05, 2007 6:16 pm
Post subject: Re: Tiger to return to the Ordnance Museum this year?...

On a related note, I think these two maps are fairly interesting:





Note the large red box on the top right on the second picture. It doesnt appear in the previous graphics (ie would be built AFTER FY 11)... I think this is the new museum complex...

You can find this in the July 2006 (& subsequent) Fort Lee townhall briefing.
www.ima.lee.army.mil/s..._07_12.pdf

Neil
Back to top
View user's profile
Neil_Baumgardner
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Jan 24, 2006
Posts: 3942
Location: Arlington, VA
PostPosted: Fri Jan 05, 2007 6:26 pm
Post subject: Re: Tiger to return to the Ordnance Museum this year?...

Here's a closeup.



As near as I can tell, this is the area I photographed last year:



Neil
Back to top
View user's profile
Hellfish6
Power User

Offline Offline
Joined: Apr 09, 2006
Posts: 151
Location: Orlando
PostPosted: Fri Jan 05, 2007 6:32 pm
Post subject: Re: Tiger to return to the Ordnance Museum this year?...

Is this the new Ordnance museum we're talking about or the new US Army museum-cum-theme park?
Back to top
View user's profile
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic    Reply to topic    Printer Friendly Page    Forum Index ›  AFV News Discussion Board
Page 1 of 2
All times are GMT - 6 Hours
Go to page 1, 2  Next



Jump to:  


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You cannot attach files in this forum
You cannot download files in this forum